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Thread: Old-style metronome ...?

  1. #1
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    Old-style metronome ...?

    ... for functional equivalent.

    Remember in the "old days" when the electronic metronome used to be about a 5" cube with a dial on the front and a red light on the top? It also had a REALLY audible click. (Looked kind of like a model train transformer. )

    I'm thinking I might need one of those -- or something like it -- for section rehearsals. All the metronomes I've seen recently seem too small and not visible or loud enough to work with a section of (say) four trombones.

    Any thoughts?
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  2. #2
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    Maybe this is the way to go: Vintage Franz Electric Metronome. There are a bunch of these on Ebay for < $20.

    But does anyone know of anything more "recent"?
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    Maybe this is the way to go: Vintage Franz Electric Metronome. There are a bunch of these on Ebay for < $20.

    But does anyone know of anything more "recent"?
    That 'Franz' model looks interesting, but a quick google search suggests it may be from the 1930s. That means that it probably has one or two vacuum tubes inside. May be difficult to repair.

    For me one with audible clicks with a light would be ideal. Maybe something like the Matrix MR 500 as seen here:

    https://www.amazon.com/Matrix-MR500-Metronome/dp/B0002F6ZJI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG0VfkQar4k
    the video is by a student who doesn't know the 440 is a reference tone
    Rick Floyd
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  4. #4
    For our tuba quartet rehearsals, I used to use an external speaker. I'd suggest you find a powered speaker that can plug into the headphone jack on a typical metronome today. It would not have a light, but the sound would be much louder than even an old Franz.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
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  5. #5
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    I don't have the experience to comment on the Matrix MR-500, but can affirm that the Matrix MR-600 has a loud click and a 1/8" port to connect an external speaker or earplugs.

  6. #6
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    Franz only went out of business a few years ago. Most of the ones available on Ebay seem to be from the 70s or so. However, I don't recall how bright the light is.

    I really want a visible light, if I can get one. I think for a group that will be more effective than a sound. But that goal may not be feasible. Otherwise the idea of an external speaker to amplify the sound may be best. In that case I already have three metronomes that can support that (and one set of speakers if I steal my wife's current stereo set-up).

    I've also thought of making a visible high-intensity LED light that I could just plug into the speaker/headphone port of one of the metronomes. But I was hoping to avoid a science fair project. However, that plus the speakers may produce the best result.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    I've also thought of making a visible high-intensity LED light that I could just plug into the speaker/headphone port of one of the metronomes. But I was hoping to avoid a science fair project. However, that plus the speakers may produce the best result.
    Well, my friend, if ever there was someone more qualified to do a science fair project than you, I don't know who that person would be! Go for it, pictures after the project is completed!!

    This metronome conversation reminds me of something we did at my New Horizons Band last year a few times. Our band at times (make that eternally and perpetually and always) tends to drag, either by section, or at times the whole kit and caboodle. I had been to a few New Horizons Band camps over the years, and noticed that at some, the home town conductor (where the camp was) would use a sound system to talk to the band. This amounted to a lightweight head set and mic (wireless) and then the appropriate receiver/speakers. We installed this notion after I spoke with my director and band about people not being able to hear the director (older people tend to not hear in addition to going slow). For the past few years, this has worked great. Now about the metronome. With the speakers already in place, someone brought in a metronome gizmo that I think plugged into the receiver and was then broadcast over the existing speakers used for communication. I think the speakers were turned up so the band could hear the metronome while everyone played. I have to admit, I did not go look at this apparatus to see exactly what was what, but the end result was an adjustable beat that cut through the entire band no matter how loud we were playing.

    The net result of using this apparatus occasionally was that the band 1) realized that they dig drag and 2) this really helped keep the beat and the band moving. It was interesting in that at the beginning of a rehearsal, it worked much better than it did at the end of a 2 hour rehearsal (tired people).

    We use this maybe for 15 minutes once a month or so just to let people see how important it is to keep up with the conductor, and even he slows down!! Any longer and you start wanting to shoot yourself with the obnoxious noise of the metronome going on.

    So, if you already have a sound system (highly, highly recommended, even for people who hear good - it is just so much nicer), then perhaps you can use that as part of your metronome system for the band and smaller ensembles within the band.

    Or, since Japan seems to be into inventing a bunch of robotic stuff, maybe someone can talk Yamaha into developing a robot conductor. Specs: A life sized dude where you are able to dial in the speed you want him to go, his arm(s) move up and down to the beat, his head lights up like a roman candle with each beat, and he is always smiling regardless of what you sound like. I can see that. I want one.
    Last edited by John Morgan; 09-04-2016 at 10:56 PM.
    John Morgan
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  8. #8
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    I kind of like the robo-conductor idea. I'm sure the technology is available now, though likely out of the reach for most bands in terms of cost. An additional knock I have on some conductors is that when they get into the music (start to really "feel" it, you know), and start "grooving" ... their conducting disintegrates into just aimlessly waiving the baton around in cool groovy patterns. At that point, nobody knows where the beat and tempo are, and the conductor is of somewhere in his own nirvanic state and listening in his head to sounds not being made by the band. But I digress.

    All I really need this metronome for is to rehearse a 4-trombone section without a conductor -- and not very frequently at that. So something simple should work.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  9. #9
    FWIW, it would not hurt to try whatever speakers are handy, but you need really high efficiency speakers to drive them directly from the metronome. The one I used was an 8" Electo-Voice coaxial speaker that had extremely high efficiency. That is why I suggested that today's answer might be a powered speaker.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
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  10. #10
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    My wife's current "stereo setup" is an old iPhone hooked to two small (but incredible) powered speakers that one of our kids gave her. It works astonishingly well. So I could just "borrow" the speakers -- which I already have set-up to plug a CD player or my Tascam recorder into. Or just get some really small powered speaker to dedicate to the metronome role.

    However, I just discovered this: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=126264.

    It makes some good points AGAINST using a (single) LED as a group metronome. And it suggests using something like the Matrix MR600 Digital Metronome in order to more closely simulate a conductor's baton or a "pendulum" metronome. However, based on some Youtube demos of that "LED pendulum", I think it would either not be very visible, or would give me a headache or severe motion sickness.

    Looking around a bit more (sometimes it takes some effort to find out what to look/search for), it now appears that the best metronome for what I'm thinking of may be the Korg KDM-2. It seems to almost be a digital version of the old Franz (with added features and in a smaller package). At $60, it's a bit pricey (though much cheaper in Ebay).

    Or I may just get a 10mm LED from Radio Shack and try the science fair route.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

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