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Thread: Question about SM9 Mouthpiece find on Amazon

  1. Question Question about SM9 Mouthpiece find on Amazon

    I know this may be a "well it's sorta obvious question" however I feel it may need to be asked.

    I am still in High School as a sophomore so I'm not really an Expert, especially when it comes to mouthpieces. I was in the market for a Dennis wick mouthpiece because the professionals some use it more than others and can produce a better quality than the others. I know it's about what is specific to you, because believe me when I was a trumpet when mouthpieces got smaller the tone got worse I was a good sound to the 7C. I became a baritone by technicality (or by instrument build (3 valve non comp.)) and I felt that a particular mouthpiece was absolutely the best for it. When I went to the same mouthpiece in the euphonium (schilke has versions in small and large shank) the tone quality worsened. I have been researching and found the SM series from dennis wick. I found one which had a gold plating on it which generally for me makes me press less which produces a better tone (I had a gold plated mouthpiece on the trumpet). The issue really is, that is says 'Baritone' instead of 'Euphonium' which leads me to believe it is a small or medium shank. I have been using a King Model 2280SP Euphonium - Legend, Soloist 4-Valve, Silver-Plated euphonium. Which I believe is a Large shank about 44mm.

    The question in short is, Is this Amazon listing or any SM series in large shank?

    https://www.amazon.com/Gold-Denis-Ba...dp/B00EDONO02/

  2. #2
    I am quite sure that any mouthpiece labeled as "baritone" would be small shank, unless otherwise specified (which it looks like is not the case with the Amazon listing).

    The SM mouthpieces are great-plenty of players use them and like them (myself included). The SM9, however, is a rather small mouthpiece compared to what most people use.

    What mouthpiece do you currently play on? That might give a better idea as to what size (relatively) is right for you.
    University of Miami - BM Euphonium Performance '21
    Indiana University - MM Bass Trombone and Euphonium Performance '24



    Besson Prestige 2052S
    Courtois 551BHRA
    Conn 88HCLSGX
    Various Greg Black mouthpieces

  3. #3
    I am quite sure that any mouthpiece labeled as "baritone" would be small shank, unless otherwise specified (which it looks like is not the case with the Amazon listing).

    The SM mouthpieces are great-plenty of players use them and like them (myself included). The SM9, however, is a rather small mouthpiece compared to what most people use.

    What mouthpiece do you currently play on? That might give a better idea as to what size (relatively) is right for you.
    University of Miami - BM Euphonium Performance '21
    Indiana University - MM Bass Trombone and Euphonium Performance '24



    Besson Prestige 2052S
    Courtois 551BHRA
    Conn 88HCLSGX
    Various Greg Black mouthpieces

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    Hi, and welcome to the forum.

    If your euphonium is in fact a King 2280, then you would need a large shank mpc. The SM9 would not fit your King 2280. Also, the '9' size would be pretty small. I'd be looking for something around an SM5 and in large shank (if you're interested in a Steve Mead mpc). They come in large and small shank size.

    Hopefully others will have some suggestions
    Last edited by RickF; 12-25-2016 at 07:47 AM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  5. I currently play on a Schilke 51D. Which my lesson teacher loves.. Well I know on trumpet the 7C was the standard, 5C and 3C was smaller. So if SM9 isn't good then isn't there a size that is best suited for my euphonium. I know about mouthpiece adapters, which I rather scratch the SM idea before using them.. I've been looking for something to expand or help expand my range both high and low. I seem to have a better low range in terms of being able to get a sound out of them but in terms of good sound, eh.. But in the high range my sound is better stable there but not really the best sound I can get out of the middle range Bb - F -Bb ect.

    UPDATE: I think I've found the brand but in terms of size im a lost needle. I found Denis Wick Heritage series which looks to be great it's for large shank. But how do I tell the size?
    Last edited by KentuckyEuphonium; 12-25-2016 at 09:53 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    Quote Originally Posted by KentuckyEuphonium View Post
    I currently play on a Schilke 51D. Which my lesson teacher loves.. Well I know on trumpet the 7C was the standard, 5C and 3C was smaller. So if SM9 isn't good then isn't there a size that is best suited for my euphonium. I know about mouthpiece adapters, which I rather scratch the SM idea before using them.. I've been looking for something to expand or help expand my range both high and low. I seem to have a better low range in terms of being able to get a sound out of them but in terms of good sound, eh.. But in the high range my sound is better stable there but not really the best sound I can get out of the middle range Bb - F -Bb ect.

    UPDATE: I think I've found the brand but in terms of size im a lost needle. I found Denis Wick Heritage series which looks to be great it's for large shank. But how do I tell the size?
    There really isn't any 'magic bullet' Per se for improving high range AND low range at the same time. If there were, we wouldn't need a private teacher. If you go to a larger mpc (usually lower numbers not higher), that would help your low range. Higher numbers may help the high range but make your low range more difficult. Also, the higher numbered mpc (smaller rim diameter / cup size) may make your tone sound thinner. We search for a mpc that is a 'best for both worlds' - high and low range with good tone. Sort of a compromise.

    Not sure if your numbering examples for trumpet mpcs are correct. When I played trumpet many years ago, I used a Bach 1-1/4. It was HUGE, but gave me a great tone. I was just 12 y.o. then and struggled to get a 'G' above the staff (treble clef). It took a lot of work and playing long tones and slowly extending my range... upper and lower.

    The Schilke 51D is an excellent mpc for euphonium and used by many players. Wick 4AL is another popular mpc used often, but is larger than the 51D. Our forum administrator, David Werden has an excellent mpc chart, but noticed there isn't any info on the Heritage line. Here's a link:

    Euphonium/Trombone Mouthpieces
    Last edited by RickF; 12-25-2016 at 10:44 AM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  7. I have narrowed my search for a mouthpiece to the same brand however to 2 types. I like the C cup because it's better suited for tone, tone is really not an issue (almost at all). My real concern is more so on a strong sound. I feel like the amount of air I use is almost all I can give it and reach the common 8 bar phrasing. When higher notes come into play I have to provide the extra mile of air to reach those notes and have a okay tone. I would like to get to a mouthpiece that doesn't require as much air while consistently containing the in tune tone. I did use a Bach mouthpiece that was just extremely bad with being sharpe 95% of the time.

    I like V cup because of its clearer articulation (I've never used a V cup before.)
    I like C cup because of its clearer tone.

    So my dilemma is between:

    Dennis Wick 3AL and Denis Wick Heritage 4.5AL

    These mouthpieces are within a 5% difference between the Shilke's 51D so I don't have to worry about the change being drastic.

    Has anyone used either of these mouthpieces are what are your pros and cons about them?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    Between those two you listed - the DW 3AL and the Heritage 4.5AL, I would choose the Heritage 4.5AL. If you're having any trouble at all with high notes, the 3AL would make it even more difficult. When looking at a chart of specs for various mpcs, keep in mind a small difference of rim diameter can be felt on your chops.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  9. Have you talked to your teacher about any of this? If anyone knows what's best for your playing right now (including equipment changes), they would be the one to ask. That said, a)you listed two mouthpieces which are completely different sizes, b) you haven't tried any of these mouthpieces before; the manufacturer lists all of these specs about why its better and what it's "good for" but that's 100% relative and in no way accurate; you have to try these before buying them, c) honestly, to me it sounds like you need practice--the 51D is about as good an all-around mouthpiece as you're gonna get, and the thin sound you seem to be getting is an air issue. Never settle for "as much air as I can", even the pros do breathing exercises to expand their lung capacity.

    My suggestion, spend this money on some breathing tools:
    Breathing Gym (https://www.amazon.com/Breathing-Boo.../dp/0965580873)
    There's a reason nearly every top drum corps and many of the greatest brass musicians endorse this; if you need to move tons of air, this is how you do it.

    Breathing Bag (http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-3802-br...r-6-liter.aspx)
    Every brass player should have a breathing bag. When you can fill this thing up in one go you're ready to assess equipment changes.

    http://www.wwbw.com/Breath-Builder-V...er-472961.wwbw
    This goes along with the last, and there are many others that do the same. I suggest finding one that you can insert your mouthpiece into, so you can buzz and make sure the ball is zipping right to the top and staying there.


    Happy practicing!
    1905 Boosey Class A Euphonium-Wick SM4M
    Yamaha 301M Marching Baritone-Schilke 52
    1960 Conn 11J-Conn Helleberg
    1961 Conn 14J-Vincent DFL
    2015 King 2341-Bach Corp. 24AW
    Olds O95 Sousaphone-King 26

  10. makes no sense.

    So since I've been on euphonium I've had experience with 2 mouthpieces

    1. Marcellus (unmarked, assumed came with the king 2280
    2. Schilke 51D

    Even though I've had more experience on Marcellus shale is an overall good mouthpiece right? I've just picked it up the first time in around 3 months and I sound just great. I even have a great vibrato going with it. However, I need to know one thing. In mouthpieces my lesson teacher told me "It doesn't matter about your gear, It helps but it's based over the player" I got the schilke as a suggestion, which was great I hear and see many great things with it, however I sound exponentially better on the marcellus. The only difference between the two is the marcellus is slightly smaller which may be the less constraint or the more constraint of the air is generating this or my embouchure is specific to smaller cup sizes.

    any thoughts. I think it's air control and air channeling but it may be something else.

    (kinda off board)
    Also.. I don't know how to explain the sound I've been getting over the past week. It's as if my sound becomes the sound of a tenor saxophone and until I reset the embouchure it doesn't go away. I may need to make a recording of it happening to properly explain it. even when I use more air it seems as nothing but the loudness increases. Any thoughts as what it could be?

    EDIT: It especially happens when I play a concert Bb C (top of the staff
    Last edited by KentuckyEuphonium; 01-03-2017 at 05:30 AM.

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