[sold] FS: Hirsbrunner 4-Valve Compensating Euphonium in Silver

[davewerden]

This Hirsbrunner is in very good shape, although it has clearly had a lot of use. There are some minor dents, and you can see some real wear in small areas from holding, probably. Silver plating is mostly good, but there is tarnish easily seen, so you'd want to polish it first thing. Case is NOT included. Given the prestigious nature of the Hirsbrunner, I think the prices below are reasonable.

It is offered in 2 listings. One is a buy-it-now with a Make Offer button, and the other is a normal auction. Not sure I've seen that before, but take your pick!

Bidding auction, starting bid is NOW $3,000 (reduced from original listing):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hirsbrunner-...-/262567950843

Buy-It-Now offer for $3,999:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hirsbrunner-...-/262563913277

[ackmondual]

Never seen the Make An Offer button, or seeing both auction and a BIN?

For the former, you name a price that the seller thinks about. If he approves, you're now on the hook to buy it. You pay that and you receive the item.

For the latter, once someone puts in a bid, the auction's on, and the BIN button is no longer a choice (it's removed).


EDIT: ohh.. I misread the "2 listings" part. I didn't think that was allowed, as what if someone buys it from one of the listings? I thought there would need to be 2 items for sale to list them like that. Yeah, that is odd.

[davewerden]

Seller has lowered the opening bid on the auction listing. Both the link and the starting bid are corrected now in the first post.

[bbocaner]

That's pretty darn beat up. The bell looks like it's been absolutely crushed (or severely damaged multiple times) and has been more or less straightened out but is far from smooth. There are huge gouges in the finish in other parts. I don't think I'd buy that at even half the opening bid.

[davewerden]

Barry,

Your eye may be better than mine, but I did not pick up on that and I'm not sure if I see it now. Are you sure the gouges aren't the dark tarnish spots in the photos? (At least, that's what those look like to me.) And the photo of the inside of the bell seems about as smooth as it should be for a horn that has been played a lot. What was the indication of severe damage you saw? (This is partly to educate me, but I have had a lot of used horns in my hands over the years.)

Thanks!

[DaTweeka]

I've been eyeing this listing for a few days and the bell looks fine to me. Even if it has been damaged, the repair job was outstanding.
I still intend to get into the bidding war, if I win I'll write up a report

[davewerden]

...if I win I'll write up a report

YES!! We love hearing those real-life stories! It's also instructive for anyone who may want to buy a used horn in the future.

[bbocaner]

Use the enlarge function on ebay. If you look at the first picture there, look at the reflections in the bell. Things that should be smooth straight lines (like the edge of the table or the reflection of the upper bow) are wavy, suggesting major dents have been repaired. If you look at the second photo (on ebay, which is different than the second photo above) you can see marks going around the circumference of the bell which are indicative of a dent machine being carelessly used to straighten out the bell. The reflections there at that point also have a mottled look rather than a mirror-like finish. Regular finish wear resulting from poor maintenance looks different, cloudy or dull. But the mottling suggests to me that repeated low-quality repairs have been made to different damage making the brass no longer smooth. The third picture clearly shows three relatively big dents in the critical leadpipe area, and numerous smaller dents in the first and third valve tubing. In the fourth photo it looks to me like the instrument's been taken apart, the bottom bow looks like it doesn't fit perfectly, there's a gap, and I think it looks like solder around the brace that you can see through the third valve tubing. I'm not certain about these two observations based on the photo, but it certainly looks that way to me. In the next photo you can see more of the same evidence of sloppy use of dent machines and witness marks from previous dents on the other side of the bell. You can also see that the bell rim has gouges in it all the way around, it looks like it was set bell-down on a rough surface like concrete or asphalt many times. In the last photo with the valves pulled out you can see several deep scratches in the bell that go beyond what I would consider normal finish wear. There are a few other photos that confirm what I'm seeing and don't offer any evidence to the contrary.

[BDeisinger]

I bought a horn from him and it was fine. The only problem was he only responds to email even though he had a telephone number listed. Silver plating makes rolling out a dented bell even harder. I don't see the damage but that doesn't mean it's not there.

[bbocaner]

I'm not commenting on the seller, only this one particular item. Silver plating usually makes it easier to affect dent repairs as some of the witness marks of stretching can be buffed away, whereas with a lacquered instrument they are trapped under the lacquer.

[davewerden]

Thanks for all the detail, Barry. In this case, I would need to see it in person to know if I would have come to the same conclusion - the pictures just don't do it for me. But if I were a potential buyer I'd take Barry's observations seriously.

[bbocaner]

For what it's worth, it may be a great playing instrument despite the cosmetic damage. But there are lots of other instruments available in the same price range which haven't had such a hard life. Unless I had played this one and knew it played great, or unless I really wanted a Hirsbrunner and this were the only one available, why chance it with an instrument that hasn't been well cared for?

[DaTweeka]

I definitely scrutinized the bell after reading your comments and noticed the rippling, mottled quality near the rim you refer to. There are a number of photos that indicate that the bell has had a hard life, but I'm honestly willing to chance it on the Hirsbrunner name alone (and the 30 day return policy).

Personally, this horn is how I'm reuniting with the euphonium, and I played quite a broad spectrum of horns in my more active years. I became very discerning about how the design of the horn impacts its playing, and this model checks all my boxes. Should it be an absolute brick, I'll cry for a few weeks over $200+ in shipping costs and probably reinvest in the non-comp 3+1 Kanstul model 985-L

[Markmc611]

Looks like it's a vintage 1984. Call Custom and get the receivers, if it doesn't come with all 3. I really like the medium one for these horns. Glad to see it went to a good home, and hopefully it ends up in a good shop for a makeover. Congratulations!!

[DaTweeka]

A follow-up post (not sure whether this should be in another topic, as this thread seems to give the best context)

The horn plays incredibly well. There are a few dents I'd like to get taken out of the leadpipe and the bell doesn't sit flat, but the only glaring problem is that the leadpipe receiver doesn't want to come out. As stated earlier in the thread, the horn has had some pretty extensive work done on it; the third valve brace has been replaced entirely, and the 4th valve lock and bell brace have been moved.

I owned a Besson 967 as my main horn for a while and had an old-as-dirt Yamaha 641 as my backup, while my instructor at the time had a Yamaha 842 Custom (which I was a bit too vocal about my distaste for). Overall, it smacks of the rich Besson sound, but with a lighter, more flexible tone. I've been playing on a Rath L5 mouthpiece and my Wedge 5G (in delrin) just came in today to really push for a brighter, more centered tone, and I couldn't be happier. Now I just need to put in the hours getting my high range back...