Custom Adams E3 for Brass Band use

[DutchEupho]

Hi All,

If someone would have a E3 custom made for (UK) Brass Band use only. What would the preferred setup be?

0.7 0.8 ?
Sterling silver bell?

intrested in what your opinions are.....

[John Morgan]

For me, that is a hard question to recommend one setup from the many possibilities. I personally would have no reservations using my own Adams E3 (Sterling Silver bell, 0.60 metal, gold brass on main bows, and yellow brass in and around valve section) in any playing environment or with any ensemble/group. I think my horn is well suited for solos and concert band work, however, I guess I would have to admit that I am not 100% sure about brass band, but I would sure make a go of it with what I had if I was playing in a brass band. I have experience in brass bands, but it was all on trombone, not euphonium. For brass band, I suppose you want a horn with a glorious sound and one that will blend well with your section mate and the band overall. The sterling silver bell may be something you could do without, and just select a gold brass bell and silver plate or lacquer the horn. I think generally the thicker the gauge of metal used, the darker the sound. So keep that in mind as you make a selection. And for sure you have to get custom inlaid valve buttons with some exotic wood or other material to make your fingers go faster than is humanly possible (I joke here!). But I love the look of Honduras Rosewood on my valve buttons!

Not many Adams euphoniums in the UK Brass Band scene yet (this is my understanding at the moment), but I don't see why that can't change over time. They are great horns, and many of the world's finest are playing them.

[Simes]

For brass band, I suppose you want a horn with a glorious sound and one that will blend well with your section mate and the band overall..

Well most players will go for the first bit and won't give a tinker's cuss about the rest! There is, unfortunately, a hideous trend for massive over-blowing especially amongst the very best players. As for the brand catching on - I fear it will be some time, for several reasons. Firstly the inate conservatism of the movement, secondly the enormous corporate aspect of contesting - Besson, Yamaha and Geneva have this sown up, and thirdly distribution. I used to work for a major Besson / Yamaha brass retailer and they don't stock Adams and I would hazard a guess that the margins available would dissuade them, despite even the quality of the product. I could however be talking complete hooey. The nearest supplier for me is 500+ miles away. (In the UK that's a long way, what with our skewed idea of distance....)

If they blow like they look, I'd buy one, but then I don't suffer from tunnel vision, unlike many of my brass band contemporaries.

[John Morgan]

I enjoy hearing your perspective, Simes. I wonder if it would raise eyebrows or be met with disdain if someone just showed up in their UK brass band with an Adams, which just replaced their long played Besson (or other typical brand). Probably another issue in having Adams a major part of the UK brass band scene or any other country's brass band scene, is that they are probably not being made yet in the numbers needed to become ubiquitous, and I suspect that might be a part of what you refer to as distribution, and that could be complete hooey, too.

I kind of want Adams to go slow and steady rather than turn into a factory spewing out tons and tons of instruments so fast that quality and uniqueness and customization suffers.

[Cameron J.]

I wouldn't have any idea, but Matt van Emmerick (Adams Artist here in Australia) uses his Custom Adams for brass band work. Might be best to get David Werden's opinion on this matter.

[DutchEupho]

emailed Matt:

He would recommend the following:
E3
0.6
SS Bell
Gold Brass body

I'd say that's the same setup as you have John or am I wrong?

[davewerden]

I'm not a brass band expert, although I have played in a couple USA versions, but I might offer the following.

I like Matt's recommendation, and that is what I would choose for either brass band or wind band playing. But to some extent personal preference is involved. If you are a player who might otherwise choose a Prestige 2052, then Matt's setup is perfect. But if you like a somewhat more focused/direct sound, and might otherwise choose a Prestige 2051, then my setup might be better, which is the same except in the E1 setting.

[John Morgan]

emailed Matt:

He would recommend the following:
E3
0.6
SS Bell
Gold Brass body

I'd say that's the same setup as you have John or am I wrong?

That is not only the same setup (exactly), but we both have the same bell engraving (which although beautiful, is totally irrelevant to the horn's playing capabilities). I had a few conversations with Matt prior to placing the order for my E3. I really can't think of a playing situation where the Adams E3 with my configuration would not be an excellent choice. I would choose my current horn over any other for ANY group, ensemble or solo work. The sound is wonderful, and what group or soloist would not want that? I wish I had really good recording equipment, as I would like to post a video or two with the horn in action, but I can't seem to capture the sound of the horn very well with the gear I currently have. Maybe time to get some good stuff.

[Simes]

I enjoy hearing your perspective, Simes. I wonder if it would raise eyebrows or be met with disdain if someone just showed up in their UK brass band with an Adams, which just replaced their long played Besson (or other typical brand). Probably another issue in having Adams a major part of the UK brass band scene or any other country's brass band scene, is that they are probably not being made yet in the numbers needed to become ubiquitous, and I suspect that might be a part of what you refer to as distribution, and that could be complete hooey, too.

I kind of want Adams to go slow and steady rather than turn into a factory spewing out tons and tons of instruments so fast that quality and uniqueness and customization suffers.

Thanks John. I suspect that anything new and different would be met with curiousity and interest. The players individually are keen on new things, but I remember having customers in trying both Yamaha Neo euphs and Prestige euphs, preferring almost everything about the Neo but at the last minute panicking and going for tradition in the shape of Besson. I may be speaking out of turn, and if I am I apologise, but there is it seems to me a sense of conceitedness and entitlement amongst many top players - who make a very good living out of an amateur pursuit - who wouldn't dare try something as radical as an entirely new concept of euphonium. There is an "old school" cartel of top players and conductors who have always sided with Besson and they exert an enormous influence and are quite happy for things to stay as they are to continue their livlihoods; this includes music from the select few composers they like, and instruments from the traditional company. A younger generation might very well provide a sense of curiosity that is currently sadly lacking.

Personally I have only ever bought the best instrument for me, brand being irrelevant. I know that seems probably slightly ridiculous given my heritage of only playing B&H / Besson trumpets, but I would have no problem auditioning a Yamaha or an Adams, or perhaps a Miraphone or Hirsbrunner and making a purchase based on the response. That is one of the reasons I will be testing an Adams on my next trip to Scotland.

As regards the quality issue, it seems similar to the problems Edwards faced when they first entered the brass band market - nobody had heard of them, therefore (in band thinking) they aren't much cop. Once the word circulated of their exemplary build the demand slowly grew. The advantage Adams have is their products are not massively more expensive than their rivals, unlike Edwards at the time. I suggest that ubiquity should never be a goal - Besson tried it with the "lottery era" instruments and the quality was abysmal.

Brand inertia and general conservatism is damaging the brass band in the UK I am sorry to say. Sorry for the rambling and incoherent reply!

[highpitch]

A sharp truth cuts deep...

Dennis

[davewerden]

Brand inertia is nothing new in the USA either, at least in the past. For a couple decades or so, most serious players were only going to consider a Willson 2900. Today the market is more open and more brands are found among the better players.

There will always be a bias for some folks (maybe most, I'm not sure) based on things other than testing horns and evaluating them. It's not different with cars and other products.

[Simes]

Very true. If you take Tesla as an example they are taking the fight to big boys, but again Adams couldn't (probably)and shouldn't do this. In brass band terms Besson is everywhere, on every band news site, sponsoring bands, paying players, providing prizes for contests etc. The National Youth Band will always have some link to Besson in its tutors (who are handpicked by the cartel I mentioned previously), conductors and guest soloists. Conspiracy eh? Probably not, but I regard it as proof of the fat cats living off brass bands seeking actively to keep everything precisely as it is. Would Matthew van Emmerik be a great choice for guest soloist at a big contest pre-results concert, or with the NYBBGB? Damn straight, but it will always be the path of least resistance in the form of David Childs. Regrettably nepotism is at the very heart of it. The movement should welcome these fabulous instrumental innovations - imagine what Adams could do with the bass tuba - but until the people at the top have the interests of the movement at heart rather than their own, nothing will change. Sorry for the digression again!

[DutchEupho]

What are the differences/similarities between the sound of Besson and the Adams E3?

[daruby]

It isn't so much nepotism as it is inertia and support. For instance, Sterling have chosen to focus on brass banding in the UK and Northern Europe (Norway, Holland, Switzerland, Belgium). They are doing pretty well and you have someone like Glyn Williams playing Sterling and soloing even in a Besson sponsored Cory band. David Thornton has also done well as a Sterling artist. But Besson puts a LOT of marketing dollars into banding and artists on a worldwide basis that the smaller manufacturers cannot afford to do. It takes a lot of money and support to pull together organizations like NYBBGB, provide a set of instruments to a top level band, or sponsor the travels and performances of artists around the world. Besson have the wherewithal to do that, and overall, it is good for the industry. In Japan, Yamaha does so much more, having repair shops in many of the schools (at all levels) and supporting thousands of beginners, intermediates, and artists.

Given the backlogs at the custom manufacturers like Sterling and Adams, the current "system" doesn't seem to be overly broken.

Doug

[DutchEupho]

Hi All,

I visited Adams in Ittervoort so I could try test the euphoniums. My preferred sound is British style Brass Band (Morgan Griffiths, Lyndon Baglin) (don’t like the overblowing sounds that seems to be a trend but that is another discussion)

Unfortunately I was informed that there was no E3 on stock for me to try.

The horns I tried/compared:

Sterling Virtuoso (300mm, red brass bell) (mine)
E2 (selected model, 0.8 yellow brass)
E1 (0.6 red brass)
E1 (0.6 Sterling silver)

I started with warming up on my own Sterling Virtuoso focusing on sound only and trying to get a feel for the room I was in. (approx. 50m2)
After warming up I tried some lyrical stuff / explored the extreme ranges and did some technical bits on all euphoniums. These are my thoughts:

Sterling Virtuoso (mine):
Love this instrument for it’s nice and warm sound (that’s why I bought it). Sometimes it lacks a little punch to my taste. Compensating register could do with a more open feel. High range is the easiest and fullest I have ever played. Articulation is fine.

E2 (Selected model):
Sound is good for all-round use. Was capable of giving some punch to the sound. Compensating register had a more open feel then the Sterling. Projection and articulation seemed a bit more difficult then E1.

E1 (0.6 red brass)
Lighter sound then the E2 and Sterling. Response was excellent, could easily get the horn to sound on air only (no tongue). Compensating range felt even more open than the E2. Projection was difficult again (could not fill the room with sound as I’d like). Articulation was excellent. (thought it would be a good choice if you play mainly solo with piano)

E1 (0.6 SS)
Felt like the previous E1 in regards to articulation and response. The Sterling silver bell fixed the problem I had with projection. This horn really resonated with me (it actually gave me goose bumps). Could mold the sound to what I prefer easily in every dynamic. The Sterling is more difficult to mold.
My brother in law (musician as well) was with me and he was engaged with his phone until the sound of this euphonium got his attention. He found the difference in sound quality big and said he had never heard me like this (positive!). Could be compared to the sound of the Sterling but more versatile. Our only concern was if this sound would hold up in a Brass band when the euphoniums have to carry the melody over a FF playing band.


After testing these instruments I was ready to go back home (about a 45 min. drive). On the way out I saw Miel and he asked what my thoughts where on the euphoniums. To make a long story short: he arranged for a freshly build E3 (selected model) so I could try it. So back to the testing room it was!

E3 (0.7 yellow brass)
This fixed the doubts I had on if the sound would hold up in a Brass Band. The best euphonium I played that day…. Projection was as good as the Virtuoso. Sound was bigger then the E1 (as big as Virtuoso) and a bit warmer then the E1 SS. Sound could be molded but not as easy as the E1 SS. What I missed was the resonating feel I got from the E1 SS (no goose bumps here).

After playing the E3 I talked to Miel about what I like about the E1 SS and the E3 (0.7) He suggested I’d try a E3 0.6 with a Sterling Silver bell. Adams will build one for me to try in raw brass (will take up to 16 weeks to build). If the results are what I expect (a combo of the E1 SS and the E3) then my Sterling Virtuoso could be up for sale! I’d first want to test it for a longer period (1 or 2 weeks) so I could try it in a concert/rehearsal with the brass band.

It has been a long time since a euphonium gave me the feeling the E1 SS gave me. It’s a bit of a strange feeling, like all the pieces of a puzzle fall into place at once. The sound/color in your head is matched instantly. I’ve had this feeling before, a long time ago on my very first Besson Sovereign. All the horns I’ve played after that (Prestige, Geneva, Virtuoso) are great but lacked that connection to the sound in my head. I probably sound crazy to some people, but I’m sure some of you have experienced this feeling.

In a few weeks I will be able to test the E3 0.6 SS……
I’ll let you know what happens after that.