Help me decide!

[bbocaner]

Hmm. Someone using a 12C mouthpiece is not ready for a compensating instrument IMO.

[davewerden]

Hmm. Someone using a 12C mouthpiece is not ready for a compensating instrument IMO.

I would tend to agree, but it is hard to have a 4-way discussion here (player, teacher, mom, us-all). The student wants to move to a 12C, so I assume she is using something smaller now??? I would think the teacher would have been the one encouraging the 12C, but maybe that is what is happening. In any case, I would consider it a stopover mouthpiece, so don't spend a lot on the 12. The other choice would be to jump to a 6-1/2AL and the Wessex at the same time. After all, some kids switch to tuba from euphonium, which is a much bigger jump. Mostly, though, I think the 12 and a compensating horn are not a match made in Heaven. That's probably partly why it is so hard to find a 12 cup with a large shank.

[davewerden]

Here is an inexpensive 6-1/2AL equivalent:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Tromb...-/322124081358

[John Morgan]

I think it was the teacher who wanted the student to switch to a 12C mouthpiece from what I read of Dmom's post. I would tend to disagree with that idea (12C mouthpiece), especially with a 4-valve compensating horn. Wessex is an excellent choice, and you really won't find more instrument for such a small price new. It does come with a mouthpiece, although I don't know the size, but I do know it is a large shank mouthpiece. Probably on the order of a "4" sized Denis Wick mouthpiece. The teacher in this case may not even be aware of what is out there; her statement that Yamaha is generally best tells me she is not well versed in euphoniums (Yamahas are certainly good instruments, but "generally best" is a very subjective statement, considering how many good euphonium brands there are). There is probably more awareness of what is available for your daughter right here on this forum, however, a really good, knowledgeable teacher can be an invaluable resource for students in determining what horn/mouthpiece they may or may not be ready for.

Not knowing any more of the circumstances, I would recommend a large shank 6 1/2AL or a Wick 4AL.

[Dmom]

Thank you all for your great advice. Yes, the band teacher is recommending that she should go to 12C. My daughter started 6 months ago and only teaching she receives is at her school (she gets a brass section teacher different from her band teacher at school who I don't personally know) so yes she is definitely a beginner but I'm happily shocked that the brass elephant that showed up in the fall is actually sounding like music now so we are all happy with how its moving along. I don't imagine that she'll study music in college, but would like for her to continue through high school so something she can use for the next 5 years (for school) and beyond (recreational purposes). Sounds like Wessex can't be beat, hopefully its not too much for her to handle for the next year.

The band teacher's main instrument is the Oboe so I agree the vast knowledge from this forum has definitely been very helpful and probably more deep than what she would care to consider as she has the whole band to deal with. Originally the idea was to just replace her 3-valve home instrument so we don't keep paying the rental fee but she only has one more year of middle school left, it probably makes sense to get the 4-valve, otherwise, I'll be doing this again in a year so that's probably what I'll do and go with the Wessex and figure out this mouth piece issue.

[Dmom]

Oh I should add that initially when I asked the teacher, I asked about the 3 valve Jupiter so she said if she's going to continue in high school, get the 4 valve, if not, the Jupiter 3 valve is fine and then she said she wants her to move to 12C so she probably meant to the 12C for the 3 valve option. My daughter uses 5G with her home instrument. Don't know what she uses at school. The Wessex says it comes with a mouth piece, not sure what..

[adrian_quince]

Hi Dmom,

Here's the basic concept on the way mouthpiece sizes work for most manufacturers: The bigger the number, the smaller the mouthpiece. (Schilke and Yamaha are the opposite, but Dave's mouthpiece chart could help you make comparisons.)

In terms of what size to use, the mouthpiece size depends on both the player and the instrument. A huge mouthpiece paired with a small bore horn will be tough to play since the mouthpiece will be giving the horn too much air. Likewise, a small mouthpiece on a large bore horn will be tough to play since not enough air will make it through the mouthpiece to the horn.

Here's a quick summary on the mouthpiece sizes talked about on the thread so far:

12C - Student mouthpiece for trombone, generally too small for euphonium (but often used as a starter because it's "easy")
6 1/2 AL - Good starter mouthpiece for euphonium. Often perfectly fine on small-bore horns, but probably a little limiting on a large bore instrument.
5G - Symphonic trombone mouthpiece used by many professional trombonists. Can provide an excellent sound for some euphoniumists, while others with stronger approaches to the instrument might find it limiting.
4AL (Denis Wick) - This is the default starting place for a large bore euphonium, in my experience.

If your daughter is comfortable on the 5G at home, I think that would make a logical starting point for her on a new instrument if you're going to go with a large bore, 4-valve compensating euphonium.

[enhite]

If your daughter is comfortable on the 5G at home, I think that would make a logical starting point for her on a new instrument if you're going to go with a large bore, 4-valve compensating euphonium.

I think that you'll find that most euphonium players will agree with Mr. Quince's comments and excellent advice.

[Richard Durham]

When I got back to Euphonium after playing horn and trumpet for about a three decades (long story since Euphonium actually paid for College), I wasn't sure how well I'd still play after the lapse, so I didn't want to invest in a high priced top of the line model until I was certain that I could still play up to the horn. I honestly believe that too much horn is like trying to teach someone to drive on a Ferrari. I started back in with a Nirschl I-700 (4 valve, Non-compensating) and I was pleased with everything about it-certainly so for the price ($1100.00 new 5 yrs ago). I found it to be free-blowing, in tune throughout the registers, and it had a nice fat sound with a Schilke 51 series mouthpiece, though it usually comes with a knock-off Bach 5GS (which is what I use now in a Bach gold heavyweight.) Now, the I-700 is a large bore like most 4 valve horns, so if you're buying, you will need to pay attention to the bore size listed on whether it's regular "trombone/tenor" or large-bore (stay away from medium/Europeans unless you're a purist or something). Most 3-valve's are regular size if she needs that because of her size, though I will say that when I first stated on Baritone in Junior High I may have weighed all of 100lbs-you can get physically used to larger horns pretty fast. I do believe that if she's serious, the sooner that she transitions to at least a 4-valve, the better off she'll be, though I'm not a big fan of "step-up" horns. I do agree that most band music (even the grand old classics) rarely go below a low concert "F" (1&3 below the staff), so unless she's into solo work or going to major in the horn, a really solid, non-compensating, 4 valve may be all she needs for her "career". If she does get more serious about the horn, then, unfortunately, you're probably going to have to bite the bullet and get the "professional" model (4 valve, Compensating, possible thumb trigger-the works) but that probably a ways off. There are still a couple of those Nirschl 700's for sale out there though you will have to look (google them "for sale"). If it doesn't work out for her, I've never been able to sell a slightly used horn, regardless of pristine condition, without taking a bath on what I shelled out for it originally, so used is always a viable option if you can get some form of return policy on it. I have a Wessex Dolce on order to serve as a back-up for the York I play now and while I was afraid of chinese, I hear nothing but good things about them. So that may be an inexpensive option down the line. Mine should arrive with the June shipment and I'll happily post here the results of the eastern experiment.


Richard H. Durham
Principal/Soloist Charlottesville Municipal Band, Orange County Community Band
York Preference, (awaiting the Wessex Dolce)
(Recovering Trumpet and French Horn Player)

[Dmom]

Thank you all for such helpful advice. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to write their detailed opinions. While I do worry that the Wessex might be too much for her initially, I will go with her teacher's advice on a 4valve compensating and Wessex seems to be the best option. She'll just have to work really hard and rise up to the instrument! =)