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Thread: Feedback Requested - Conical Brass Quintet

  1. #1
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    Feedback Requested - Conical Brass Quintet

    I am working on composing a quintet for conical brass, cornets, alto/tenor horn, euphonium, tuba. At 63 I am composing again after about 14 years. I have played euphonium (still own a baritone), trombone, cornet and trumpet. But my greatest love was playing in a Salvation Army Band. I am fairly sure I am OK on this piece, but I need second opinions. I don't want it to be so hard that it is beyond your average Brass Band or Salvation Army musician. I would also welcome any feedback on the composition itself before I move on to writing the second of three planned movements. Composing is just a hobby for me. So I am going to post score and parts on the IMSLP website so that anyone interested can download them for free.

    I posted the composition to YouTube so that the score could be seen while listening. I debated whether to use a transposed or concert pitch score, but went with a transposed score. Here is a link. Please give opinions bad or good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEg9EE8moJM

  2. #2
    The Salvation Army has a lot of mixed brass ensemble music that was clearly written with conical brass in mind and they are graded according to ability. I may be telling you the obvious here, but perhaps you could compare your composition to some of theirs for difficulty level.

    Anyway, many of us would welcome such compositions, although don't be surprised if some of the cylindrical brass folks like it as well.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by John the Theologian View Post
    The Salvation Army has a lot of mixed brass ensemble music that was clearly written with conical brass in mind and they are graded according to ability. I may be telling you the obvious here, but perhaps you could compare your composition to some of theirs for difficulty level.

    Anyway, many of us would welcome such compositions, although don't be surprised if some of the cylindrical brass folks like it as well.
    Thanks for the kind words. I played in the SA during the 1990's up to 2002, so a lot might have changed since then. But at that time there was "advanced" plus four grades, with grade 1 being absolute beginners and grade 4 being intermediate/advanced. The SA territorial bands play music that the SA calls "advanced" and would be a similar challenge as a British Brass Band National Contest Test Piece.

    My composition would definitely be grade 4, but I did not want to go too far beyond that and reach "advanced". Hopefully that makes sense. I could have played the euphonium part on my baritone when I was practicing. I never would have been able to play it on my trombone. I have checked with trumpet/cornet players, and the 1st and 2nd cornet are OK. I am mostly worried about the Alto/Tenor part. Know any alto/tenor musicians?

    I never played tuba, but I tried not to get too carried away with anything too fast.

  4. #4
    Hi Paul,

    Well done! Interesting piece, with shades of Ewald to my ear.

    A couple of things about this piece that might make it a little more advanced than it looks:

    1) Endurance - There's just not a place to rest more than 2 measures. Over the course of five and a half minutes, that's a lot of face time. Maybe you could thin the texture in spots? The octave doublings in spots could potentially become single instruments. Also, some of the back and forth between parts could be consolidated into a single part, giving the others rest. This might also give a little more textural variety, I think.

    2) Counting - The texture is made up of lots of small fragments. It's musically quite effective, but a player not used to such writing may have counting difficulties. I don't think there's much to do other than be aware it might be an issue.
    Adrian L. Quince
    Composer, Conductor, Euphoniumist
    www.adrianquince.com

    Kanstul 976 - SM4U

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian_quince View Post
    Hi Paul,

    Well done! Interesting piece, with shades of Ewald to my ear.

    A couple of things about this piece that might make it a little more advanced than it looks:

    1) Endurance - There's just not a place to rest more than 2 measures. Over the course of five and a half minutes, that's a lot of face time. Maybe you could thin the texture in spots? The octave doublings in spots could potentially become single instruments. Also, some of the back and forth between parts could be consolidated into a single part, giving the others rest. This might also give a little more textural variety, I think.

    2) Counting - The texture is made up of lots of small fragments. It's musically quite effective, but a player not used to such writing may have counting difficulties. I don't think there's much to do other than be aware it might be an issue.
    Great advice! I see exactly what you mean. I am planning on doing a revision / rewrite and will incorporate your feedback.

    All of us who try to write music need to remember that even great composers (and I am no great composer) did not work in a vacuum. They had family groups or gatherings of friends that would read their music and give feedback long before publication. I remember reading various composers having readings of their music and making changes as a result. Even Beethoven had friends read portions of his quartets and symphonies in progress (up to the fifth) and would make changes as a result. I suppose the internet is our way of having gatherings of friends these days, since fewer people actually play instruments anymore.

    Your comments give me a lot to think about and work on. This is exactly the kind of detailed response I was hoping for when I posted this piece.

    Sadly at 63 I am no longer participating in any performance groups, and my best friends who played, and they were older than I am, are gone on to glory. Now that I have a bit more free time, I am torn between composing and getting out my instruments and playing again. :-)

    I will be checking out your website. Thank you.
    Last edited by Paul T McGraw; 04-20-2016 at 07:09 AM.

  6. #6
    I really like this work, which adds a tuba and depth to the British brass band quartet. Adrian's points are well taken, especially endurance -- I can see the cornets complaining (low brass would be more stoic about it!). Agree on counting -- pros would, of course, stay right on the beat, but many amateur groups would slow to that magic 90-94 range which seems to be a universal constant....

    I play in a conical quartet and I am sure any good E flat horn player would be fine with their part.

    John

  7. #7
    Although your composition is being written for a conical quintet, you might want to consider having an alternate F part available for the Eb tenor horn part. An Eb player is going to be the hardest to find outside of SA and British brass band circles and having a part that a symphonic horn or even-- gasp-- a mellophone player could read easily might make it easier to market. Also having bass clef transpositions for the euphonium and tuba parts would be useful as well. I'm not sure if you're planning on having the tuba part in BBb or Eb, but if you choose BBb, a bass clef part gives C, ,F or Eb tuba players-- the latter reading as treble clef-- an easier time, especially in the average amateur setting.
    Last edited by John the Theologian; 04-20-2016 at 08:28 AM. Reason: awkword wording

  8. #8
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    Where is the like button?

    JTJ and John the Theologian, thank you so much. I am working on a rewrite and soaking up all of this wonderful feedback. Thank you.

  9. #9
    Hi Paul,

    Glad you found the advice helpful. Also, I completely agree with John on the alternate transpositions for parts. While you intended this for conical brass, I think your writing would translate across a wide variety of brass quintets.

    In taking a second listen tonight, I found a couple of spots where you might consider adding some space:

    m. 45 - I'd try making this just a dotted half chord, then having the Alto make its entrance alone in the next bar and continuing as written. This lets the first sentence in Theme B actually come to a close (as opposed to being an elision) and gives the Alto a nice little moment in the spotlight. Also, it'd be a playful little detail keep the elision at the parallel point in the recap.

    m. 104 - The tuba entrance announcing the development seems to my ear to come a bit too soon. It feels like there needs to be at least another couple of bars (maybe 3 or 4 even), coming down to almost nothing. Also, you could try disassembling the 16th-16th-8th idea as you diminuendo towards the recap, e.g. (. = 16th, - = 8th) ..- ..- | .- .- | - - | etc. to really drive home the diminishing effect.

    One other thing... for less skilled players, it's easier to end a fast figure on a strong beat. There are a few spots in which a complex figure ends on the last eighth of the bar, e.g. m 98. in the Alto. Consider putting an "anchor note" on one of the next bar to give them something to aim for.

    Honestly, though, all this stuff is just polisihing. You've got something good here already. I can't wait to see it finished because I want to play it with my quintet. :-)
    Adrian L. Quince
    Composer, Conductor, Euphoniumist
    www.adrianquince.com

    Kanstul 976 - SM4U

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian_quince View Post
    Hi Paul,

    Glad you found the advice helpful. Also, I completely agree with John on the alternate transpositions for parts. While you intended this for conical brass, I think your writing would translate across a wide variety of brass quintets.

    In taking a second listen tonight, I found a couple of spots where you might consider adding some space:

    m. 45 - I'd try making this just a dotted half chord, then having the Alto make its entrance alone in the next bar and continuing as written. This lets the first sentence in Theme B actually come to a close (as opposed to being an elision) and gives the Alto a nice little moment in the spotlight. Also, it'd be a playful little detail keep the elision at the parallel point in the recap.

    m. 104 - The tuba entrance announcing the development seems to my ear to come a bit too soon. It feels like there needs to be at least another couple of bars (maybe 3 or 4 even), coming down to almost nothing. Also, you could try disassembling the 16th-16th-8th idea as you diminuendo towards the recap, e.g. (. = 16th, - = 8th) ..- ..- | .- .- | - - | etc. to really drive home the diminishing effect.

    One other thing... for less skilled players, it's easier to end a fast figure on a strong beat. There are a few spots in which a complex figure ends on the last eighth of the bar, e.g. m 98. in the Alto. Consider putting an "anchor note" on one of the next bar to give them something to aim for.

    Honestly, though, all this stuff is just polisihing. You've got something good here already. I can't wait to see it finished because I want to play it with my quintet. :-)
    Awesome. I think both thoughts are good ones. It might take me a week or so to rewrite, but will definitely repost once completed. Thank you.

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