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Thread: "Lightweight" Eb Tuba wanted

  1. #1

    "Lightweight" Eb Tuba wanted

    Dear all

    I am looking for a lightweight Eb Tuba (compensated, 4 valve). Are there any brands or models that are known to be lighter than others?

    The instrument is for one of our older community band members, that's why weight is an issue. He currently plays an about 50-60 year old, 3-valved Besson New Standard, which would need a bigger and expensive revision. The horn is quite lightweight but intonation is also always an issue, therefore I would prefer to buy a new one. Our other Eb-Tuba player has a Besson Sovereign 982, which he is quite happy with and weights ~9.3kg according to Besson.

    Although weight is important, I do not want to purchase a horn, that does not provide a proper sound and intonation for a brass band. In case we have to hand it over to a younger musician in a couple of years, this should still be attractive to play with.

    As I am not a tuba player myself, I hope you can provide some insight. Many thanks in advance.
    Last edited by BigMc; 03-09-2016 at 06:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I'm not entirely clear on what you're trying to accomplish. I have the feeling that you've mixed some overall goals with some ideas of how to achieve them -- and there may be better and less expensive alternatives.

    One problem is that the combination of "compensated" and "light weight" is somewhat incompatible since compensated instruments are of necessity heavier than comparable non-compensated ones.

    The other question is: Does it have to be an Eb tuba? If it does (because your current player doesn't want to learn new fingerings), then that does constrain choices.

    Let's assume it MUST be Eb. Does it NEED to be compensated? (See below for the issues pertinent to this.) If it doesn't need to be compensated, then something like the Schiller "Gentleman's Tuba" might do well. Also potentially good for a smaller/young player. Or a vintage 3-valve Eb horn (my old Buescher is quite light).

    For a compensated horn, consider the Wessex Bombino, which is only 15 lbs (though I don't think my Buescher weighs that much).

    Re compensation: If you have more than one tuba player in your band, then an uncompensated Eb tuba can easily stay out of the compensating range and still play the music. Even then, most Eb tubas have very good (to excellent) "false tones" and can play chromatically all the way down to their fundamental without compensation. So a good 3-valve Eb tuba (old American or some other such as a German or Czech 3-valve rotary Eb -- which are very inexpensive) could be a big win.

    A final consideration: Why is weight important? Weight intrudes in two ways: when you play it, and when you transport it. For older people, just horsing a 20 lb. tuba around is a bit of a chore. But if you can get it in and out of the car, then you can get it on wheels in one way or another, and you're good.

    If weight is a problem while playing the horn, then the solution is a tuba rest/stand. I strongly recommend this for almost any tuba player. Once I made mine and stopped wrestling with my horns, I could actually devote all my time to playing then instead of trying to prevent them from getting away.

    If an Eb instrument is not "necessary", then there are a number of fairly small BBb horns (3/4 size) to be considered, and these often appear on the used market. And the Wessex Mosel is a nice little light-weight BBb with four rotary valves. Or consider the Wessex Junior, which is even smaller. It has only 3 valves, but that's all you'll need.

    My point in all this is that the problem you're facing has a number of facets which need to be considered in making a decision. You may not end up needing/wanting what you currently think you do.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  3. #3
    Thanks for your answer, Gary.

    It has to be an Eb-Tuba, yes. Regarding the weight: the main issue is transportation. The guy who will be playing the horn suffers from COPD - a lung disease. Astonishingly, he still manages to play quite well and with a nice sound. His physician is convinced, his good condition despite the diseases is due to the training playing the horn for decades. Nevertheless, he has got issues when other muscles are used, i.e. when he has to carry the horn, he quite quickly has not sufficient air.

    Now, he is quite stubborn and refuses to use any form of "wheels" or let us carry the horn for him. The day he will not be able to carry his horn on his own anymore will be the day when he quits playing - is one of his mantras...

    The Wessex you mention could perhaps be a valid alternative. However, in Switzerland (or continental Europe), there seems to be no supplier for these horns. Wessex UK charges 200-400£ for delivery - which is definitely too much to pay in case the horn does not fit him. It's the same with Schiller...

    He has got a vintage horn right now, but to repair it would cost around 800 $ here in Switzerland - instead of spending that much on an old horn, which a new player would probably not like to play, I would rather buy something new.

    Perhaps I have to mention, that the instruments in our band belong to the band - only few of the members have their own instruments. That's why we like to buy rather high-quality instruments that will last for a long period of time. Almost all instruments, except the trombones (Yamaha) and his vintage horn (New Standard) are from the Besson Sovereign line.
    Last edited by BigMc; 03-09-2016 at 11:10 AM.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by BigMc View Post
    The Wessex you mention could perhaps be a valid alternative. However, in Switzerland (or continental Europe), there seems to be no supplier for these horns. Wessex UK charges 200-400£ for delivery - which is definitely too much to pay in case the horn does not fit him.
    To correct, the actual price of sending a Bombino to Switzerland is no more than £75 (maybe less depending on shipping address). Also note there is no VAT selling to Switzerland, so you can also take 20% off website price.

    The Bombino is a unique model based on Boosey design used by the British military a 100 years ago and is made exclusive for Wessex Tubas. Lightweight, great sound (I use one myself for marching gigs) with exceptionally good intonation, and fully compensated with 4-valves. There is nothing else similar available.

    There are dealers that Wessex supply in Switzerland, although you will probably get best price purchasing direct from Wessex UK. You could also visit our booth at Frankfurt Music Fair (Hall 10, level 2, booth B31) in April for confidence of trying before buying.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Do email me at Jonathan@Wessex-Tubas.co.uk for any further details.
    Last edited by Jonathantuba; 03-09-2016 at 05:26 PM.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMc View Post
    ... here in Switzerland - instead of spending that much on an old horn, which a new player would probably not like to play, I would rather buy something new.
    So you're in Switzerland and not buying Hirsbrunner? Is that legal? Are the authorities aware of this? Do your audiences know that you prefer BRITISH tubas?

    But seriously, what about the HBS 488? It must be in the same price range as a Besson, and IT'S SWISS!
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #6
    No, there's no such law. Btw. Willson would probably not agree, that Hirsbrunner is the only Swiss manufacturer of high-quality instruments ;-)

    Even the Swiss Army provides Bessons to their band members - perhaps part of the explanation, why the brand is so common with Swiss community bands. As the rest of the army, the army bands are also organized following the militia concept, i.e. 20 years old you go through a 16-20 week basic training and then serve 3 weeks every year for 10 years.

    Most of these army band musicians are ambitious amateurs rather than professionals and thus play with their instrument also in community bands. The best part is, that they are allowed to keep their instrument for free, once their service is done - especially worthwhile playing a tuba...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    Interesting. However, I am skeptical of their commitment. While I've seen Swiss soldiers dressed in combat gear and carrying their rifles wandering back and forth to practice (at times on public transportation in places like Geneva), and even young ladies trooping to the local range for similar practice, I do not recall ever seeing Swiss military personnel wandering the streets with their tubas and euphoniums. However, I confess that most of my musical experience in Switzerland was in just trying to stay out of the way in the period before Fasnacht.

    I certainly agree about Willson, but I don't think they have a tuba that suits your particular needs. The 3400 weighs over 20 lbs (9.5 Kg).
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  8. #8
    Well, compared to the several thousand normal soldiers doing their annual service all over Switzerland, there is just a small number of army musicians and they all go to just one place - Aarau. It's therefore not really a surprise, if you have never seen one "in the wild". In addition, during your 3 weeks service, you can only spend the week-ends at home (Saturday morning to Sunday evening) and I would assume, most leave their instruments at the barracks for that time rather than carry them back and forth.

    Regarding the Fasnacht you might have missed something - perhaps not so much from the musical point of view, although also this can be an experience ;-)

    Yep, the Willsons are quite massive...
    Besson Sovereign BE968
    Willson 2950TA

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMc View Post
    Regarding the Fasnacht you might have missed something - perhaps not so much from the musical point of view, although also this can be an experience ;-)
    I think I got enough of the experience of the fife band that was practicing every night directly across the street from me and at the same level as my apartment a couple of blocks off Marktplatz in Basel. Unfortunately, I had to leave before the event itself.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #10
    Yeah, I see - I personally don't really like the piccolos - hurt my ears. Although the sound in the city is something really unique - especially at 4 in the morning at the "Morgestraich" with absolutely no lights at all - except the lanterns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyVQxK1z6qU

    However, I though you were talking about the brass band type "Guggemusig". You might get an idea here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqUJCelnIu4

    From a musical perspective...well... not really "high-level brass band music" to say the least, but the created atmosphere in the city is fabulous...
    Last edited by BigMc; 03-14-2016 at 10:40 AM.
    Besson Sovereign BE968
    Willson 2950TA

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