Monzani MZEP-1150L

[Trperry]

Has anyone come across the Monzani MZEP-1150L euphonium?

https://www.musicstore.de/en_OT/AUD/...BLA0002559-000

It seems to be another Jinbao (or other Chinese maker) clone of the Yamaha 642 and to be available only from Music Store Professional in Germany and from its UK subsidiary DV247.

This horn has a huge price advantage over other Jinbao clones, but it also looks different - perhaps the brass composition is less optimal, hence the duller appearance under the lacquer? I'd be very curious to hear if anyone on the forum has first hand experience of one of these horns.

[davewerden]

I know nothing about this, but the photos are interesting. I'm not sure the photos are "true" for color, though. The bell looks like it's nickel plated in the overall photos, but the photo of the receiver makes it look like the bell is gold colored.

[ghmerrill]

Looks like the standard Jin Bao offering to me. The color appearance is just an artifact of lighting and photography. It's quite difficult to get a photo showing the true color of instruments like this. I've taken pictures of brass instruments that came out looking silver, and of silver instruments that came out looking brass.

In terms of price, and once you would correct for things like import duties, shipping, etc., it seems to be in about the same price range as this: http://www.jimlaabsmusic.com/band-or.../prod_645.html -- which I would guess is exactly the same horn.

[bbocaner]

the bell is either really poorly buffed or really dirty, or the lacquer is cloudy. But it's clearly yellow brass with nickel silver trim and a gold brass leadpipe, which is the standard Jin Bao playbook. Looks like a really nice case though! Different than the standard semi-soft-sided case that Jin Bao instruments usually come with.

[Trperry]

Thanks guys. Gary, I think you are right about the Jim Laabs Schiller being the same thing for the same price if based in the U.S. - I should have been clearer that the huge price advantage is an Aussie perspective. The Schiller with postage to Aus comes in at around 2x the cost of the Monzani with postage to Aus. So if it's basically the same horn this is pretty tempting.

[jskline5]

If you are considering an 1150 (jinbao...or otherwise Yamaha 642 clone) at least call and talk to Tom at Mack Brass, before ordering from Jim Laabs, at least. Tom has a price match guarantee, even on shipping. Now, I have no idea at all what is involved in shipping from the U.S. to Aus. Maybe it IS less to ship from a European source. But if I were set on any 1150, I would give Mack Brass my business in a heartbeat. Tom is knowledgeable, easy to talk to, and willing to give his time on the phone to answer questions or address concerns. It may be that he CAN'T help you (I really don't know), but I'd bet he can steer you in the right direction, and be a valuable resource in any case.
Good Luck!

P.S. I guess you DO have to be careful about the time zones when calling, though....

[Trperry]

Tom from MACK (and his euphs) has a really great rep in this forum and beyond and I would very gladly have given him my business. I emailed him about shipping costs to Australia yesterday he replied to my email pretty promptly. Unfortunately, at least for the time being, MACK doesn't ship outside the US.
Having done the cost benefit analysis and thought seriously about what I want my instrument for (basically to play at home, and to learn some solo repertoire that my old front action 3 valve Getzen euph doesn't really have the range for) I ordered the Monzani from Germany. Part of me would have liked to hold out and buy the Wessex Dolce, but at A$750 for the Monzani vs A$2090 for the Wessex, I thought it was worth risking the cheaper euph. If it is rubbish, I can send it back (there is a 30 day return period) and save up for the Wessex instead. I'll report back on the Monzani when it arrives.
My thanks to Mr Werden and the other forum members for their views and advice. I have only been a member of this forum for a month (having referred to it often over the years) and really do appreciate its existence and the exchanges of views it facilitates!

Tim

[Trperry]

So the Monzani arrived today and first impressions are favourable. I haven't had a chance to put it through its paces thoroughly yet, but the instrument is free blowing and has a warm, open sound. The tone feels lighter than my Getzen, but still full and euphish. Intonation seems pretty decent. The mouthpiece is nothing to shout about, but I'll try it with my Denis Wick 4AL for a proper workout soon. The instrument seems to have been prepared for use by Musicstore Professional in Germany. The slides are greased and move smoothly and the valves are responsive, if a little noisy. Looking forward to giving the horn a good going over on the weekend.
Tim

[Trperry]

I have had a decent play of my Monzani now and I'm very pleased with it. It has a big, open sound, definitely heavier than my Getzen, and the intonation is fairly true through the range. I'm not going to post a very detailed review because it would only repeat the reviews of Schiller and Mack branded Jin Bao clones already posted in other topics, right down to the tricky threads on the valve caps. It's an irrelevant instrument for US buyers who can get the same thing from US retailers, but for European or Antipodean buyers, this is a very viable low cost option.

[pgeoff]

I am glad that I found this forum! Thanks to all of you that post. I went ahead and ordered the Monzani MZEP-1150L euphonium from the store in Germany. Total cost with insured shipping to Oklahoma was $562 USD.

[DaveBj]

It will probably get held up in U.S. Customs for a week or two, and then you might have a small fee to pay at the Post Office. That's what happened with the baritone that I purchased from China.

Keep us posted

[Art Lewis]

These Chinese Instruments are really cheap... and seem to be good quality for little money. But someone has to pay the price. I estimate the retaillers get half of the amount on the pricetag. Then think about transport, tax, shareholders etc. I ask myself a couple of (non-rhetorical) questions:
How is the situation in a chinese workshop? How are the instrument makers payed or treated?
Do I like to make music on a clone?
Miraphone in Waldkraiburg or Besson in Markneukirchen or Alexander in Mainz etc. etc. make their Instruments with passion and a lot of experience. From Hirsbrunner I have learned: A musical instrument is one of the rare goods in my life, to which I entertain a personal and long lasting relationship. Can I be happy with a Chinese clone on the long run?
Has anybody of you seen a Chinese instrument factory from inside? How are the working conditions? What passion and mission drive the owners there? Do Chinese musicians cherish and praise these Instruments or do Chinese artists buy from traditional European makers?
A musical instrument is a long term investment. In my experience it was allways better to wait, build up some funds and then buy the real thing. Second hand was often a good option too.
If I had to buy cheap and new, I would like to find out something about the production conditions and the intellectual property that is used. When I bought my Euphounium I did not think "value for my money". For me it´s all about "values".

[Trperry]

Art, you make a lot of valid points and ask some tough questions. I can only answer for myself. I know nothing about the Chinese factory where my Monzani was made. I believe based on comments I have read online about the factories where JP and Wessex instruments are made that at least in those factories working conditions are reasonable, but I don't know much more than that, and I don't know if conditions in the factory where my Monzani was made are comparable. I don't know how the makers feel about my instrument or whether Chinese musicians are happy to play it. I do know that the instrument plays well and that I enjoy making music on it, though I'm a very rusty amateur and play only in my spare time. I don't belong to a band and haven't for years. When I did, I played a Besson that I had on loan and I loved it. If I could afford a classic European horn I would buy one in a heartbeat, but even second hand they are out of my price range. If I played more frequently or at a higher standard perhaps the family priorities could have been shuffled, but as things stand I could not justify a purchase of several thousand dollars for me to have an instrument that I would play only infrequently and by myself. That may change, and I hope that in a few years I may be able to buy a good European horn, but my Monzani will do for me for now.
All the best
Tim

[Davidus1]

I understand the questions but wonder "are these questions asked about the others goods and services utilized"? If you buy something from a Wal-Mart there is a good chance that it was produced in China. I've seen the pictures posted by Jonathan (Wessex) from the factory that he works with and it looks very clean and orderly. I have no idea about labor laws and other conditions in China. I also don't control those factors. Frankly, I don't know about the labor conditions at the Miraphone factory. I have also viewed their website/Facebook page and the factory and employees look professional and happy but I have no proof of that. For me, buying these instruments was the difference between playing again or not playing again as I have two boys getting ready for college and I could not justify paying over $15,000 for a tuba, euphonium, bass trombone and tenor trombone. It wasn't going to happen. I'm not criticizing your post at all but just expressing my rationale for the purchase and also that most of us are buying things made in another country of which we have little knowledge of the questions asked.

[davewerden]

Good discussion above! I have asked myself the same moral questions, but then I would up where Davidus1 is, I think.

I'm carrying a smartphone made in China; drinking from a Stanley mug made in China; wearing Rockport shoes made in Viet Nam; probably wearing other items today made in China and other countries; I have a very nice logo/souvenir hat made in China about 10 years ago; my Walkman MP3 player is from Malaysia. At home I have a euphonium made in Holland, a baritone and tuba made in England, but who knows where my music stand, metronome, and tuner were made?

I've sat through a forum at church where the presenter discussed the immorality of buying a particular well-known-brand-name product because the workers made only X per day. But what she didn't point out is that workers in neighboring factories in that same country made about half that much. While "X" sounded very small to Americans, it was a big step up in that country. Would the locals be better off if a boycott caused the X-per-day factory to close? Such things confuse our moral math.