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Thread: Monzani MZEP-1150L

  1. #11
    It will probably get held up in U.S. Customs for a week or two, and then you might have a small fee to pay at the Post Office. That's what happened with the baritone that I purchased from China.

    Keep us posted
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  2. These Chinese Instruments are really cheap... and seem to be good quality for little money. But someone has to pay the price. I estimate the retaillers get half of the amount on the pricetag. Then think about transport, tax, shareholders etc. I ask myself a couple of (non-rhetorical) questions:
    How is the situation in a chinese workshop? How are the instrument makers payed or treated?
    Do I like to make music on a clone?
    Miraphone in Waldkraiburg or Besson in Markneukirchen or Alexander in Mainz etc. etc. make their Instruments with passion and a lot of experience. From Hirsbrunner I have learned: A musical instrument is one of the rare goods in my life, to which I entertain a personal and long lasting relationship. Can I be happy with a Chinese clone on the long run?
    Has anybody of you seen a Chinese instrument factory from inside? How are the working conditions? What passion and mission drive the owners there? Do Chinese musicians cherish and praise these Instruments or do Chinese artists buy from traditional European makers?
    A musical instrument is a long term investment. In my experience it was allways better to wait, build up some funds and then buy the real thing. Second hand was often a good option too.
    If I had to buy cheap and new, I would like to find out something about the production conditions and the intellectual property that is used. When I bought my Euphounium I did not think "value for my money". For me itīs all about "values".

  3. #13
    Art, you make a lot of valid points and ask some tough questions. I can only answer for myself. I know nothing about the Chinese factory where my Monzani was made. I believe based on comments I have read online about the factories where JP and Wessex instruments are made that at least in those factories working conditions are reasonable, but I don't know much more than that, and I don't know if conditions in the factory where my Monzani was made are comparable. I don't know how the makers feel about my instrument or whether Chinese musicians are happy to play it. I do know that the instrument plays well and that I enjoy making music on it, though I'm a very rusty amateur and play only in my spare time. I don't belong to a band and haven't for years. When I did, I played a Besson that I had on loan and I loved it. If I could afford a classic European horn I would buy one in a heartbeat, but even second hand they are out of my price range. If I played more frequently or at a higher standard perhaps the family priorities could have been shuffled, but as things stand I could not justify a purchase of several thousand dollars for me to have an instrument that I would play only infrequently and by myself. That may change, and I hope that in a few years I may be able to buy a good European horn, but my Monzani will do for me for now.
    All the best
    Tim

  4. #14
    I understand the questions but wonder "are these questions asked about the others goods and services utilized"? If you buy something from a Wal-Mart there is a good chance that it was produced in China. I've seen the pictures posted by Jonathan (Wessex) from the factory that he works with and it looks very clean and orderly. I have no idea about labor laws and other conditions in China. I also don't control those factors. Frankly, I don't know about the labor conditions at the Miraphone factory. I have also viewed their website/Facebook page and the factory and employees look professional and happy but I have no proof of that. For me, buying these instruments was the difference between playing again or not playing again as I have two boys getting ready for college and I could not justify paying over $15,000 for a tuba, euphonium, bass trombone and tenor trombone. It wasn't going to happen. I'm not criticizing your post at all but just expressing my rationale for the purchase and also that most of us are buying things made in another country of which we have little knowledge of the questions asked.
    John 3:16


    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium

  5. #15
    Good discussion above! I have asked myself the same moral questions, but then I would up where Davidus1 is, I think.

    I'm carrying a smartphone made in China; drinking from a Stanley mug made in China; wearing Rockport shoes made in Viet Nam; probably wearing other items today made in China and other countries; I have a very nice logo/souvenir hat made in China about 10 years ago; my Walkman MP3 player is from Malaysia. At home I have a euphonium made in Holland, a baritone and tuba made in England, but who knows where my music stand, metronome, and tuner were made?

    I've sat through a forum at church where the presenter discussed the immorality of buying a particular well-known-brand-name product because the workers made only X per day. But what she didn't point out is that workers in neighboring factories in that same country made about half that much. While "X" sounded very small to Americans, it was a big step up in that country. Would the locals be better off if a boycott caused the X-per-day factory to close? Such things confuse our moral math.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Good discussion above! I have asked myself the same moral questions, but then I would up where Davidus1 is, I think.

    I'm carrying a smartphone made in China; drinking from a Stanley mug made in China; wearing Rockport shoes made in Viet Nam; probably wearing other items today made in China and other countries; I have a very nice logo/souvenir hat made in China about 10 years ago; my Walkman MP3 player is from Malaysia. At home I have a euphonium made in Holland, a baritone and tuba made in England, but who knows where my music stand, metronome, and tuner were made?

    I've sat through a forum at church where the presenter discussed the immorality of buying a particular well-known-brand-name product because the workers made only X per day. But what she didn't point out is that workers in neighboring factories in that same country made about half that much. While "X" sounded very small to Americans, it was a big step up in that country. Would the locals be better off if a boycott caused the X-per-day factory to close? Such things confuse our moral math.
    Agree. All things don't equate to US living conditions, wages, etc. Closing the factory, as you mention, wouldn't improve things. I'm sure people are glad to get these jobs. I remember a lot of controversy about the Nike facilities a few years ago. Much of that may or may not have been true but I've had the opportunity to travel quite a bit and the thing that has stuck wish me after seeing Central and South America specifically is the standard of living just doesn't match the US. All things are not equal. Anyway.........good discussion. I guess we each have to make our own choices about where and what to purchase! I like the ability to share in this forum without attacking each other. Thanks!
    John 3:16


    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium

  7. Thank you for your replies on my questions! I agree a lot with Tim, Dave and Davidus1. Here in Papua Newguinea most goods you can buy from a store come from China. Even the Peanut Butter from our remote local store is made in China. My questions came up with the need of buying a new violin for my wife. The violin she brought from Germany just fell apart. The glue composite simply was not fit for the tropics. The violin maker in Brisbane recommended a Chinese violin. It was only 220 US$. He did some fine tuning on it and there it was: a marvellous, nice playing and good sounding instrument. But for my wife it was a tough decision - morally, musically. She had to get rid of a lot of prejudices and resentments first. But now she canīt be happier. Short time before that I bought a guitar in Lae, PNG. Cost 30 US$, the standard "Kappok" brand model everybody uses here. I had no qualms at all.
    But normally I try to buy on the local market with sustainability in mind. And with very view goods I become a little radical and moralistic. E.g. Euphonium: I like to know the workshop and some of the people behind the brand. I want to know where the parts come from, even try to find out where they get the brass from. Despite of bad internet connectivity I can do all this research from here. Next step back at home will be visiting some workshops and factories, talking to staff and playing the instruments. This requires a lot of time, money, energy. Chinese Euphoniums are too cheap for that. Looks like I have a luxury problem. (Though I never could afford or justify buying an Euphonium like Inderbinen offers.) I am really happy that we have the 5000 to 7000$ class of professonal Instruments around with lots of choices from different makers. Hopefully all these competitive cheap Chinese offerings help develop the Euphonium/Baritone Instruments and its popularity and improve the quality of traditional European craftmanship.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Lewis View Post
    But normally I try to buy on the local market with sustainability in mind. And with very view goods I become a little radical and moralistic. E.g. Euphonium: I like to know the workshop and some of the people behind the brand. I want to know where the parts come from, even try to find out where they get the brass from. Despite of bad internet connectivity I can do all this research from here. Next step back at home will be visiting some workshops and factories, talking to staff and playing the instruments. This requires a lot of time, money, energy.
    For years I longed to see a USA maker do a compensating euphonium. Finally Kanstul came out with one, which was cool. Unfortunately, it has not taken off in the market. And, in my own testing and in feedback I've gotten from a high-quality player who used one for several years, it is not quite to the level of the other top brands. But they are a good company and may yet make it a really competitive product. If so, that would be a major accomplishment, which I would cheer!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  9. #19
    It would be nice to see a USA made pro horn. I admittedly haven't played a Kanstul. I wonder how much brass instrument making expertise has been lost over the years in the US. Skilled craftsman are probably not easy to find.
    John 3:16


    Conn Victor 5H Trombone
    Yamaha 354 Trombone
    Conn 15I Euphonium

  10. #20
    Hi pgeoff. Did your instrument arrive from Germany? How are you finding it? I'm still enjoying mine!

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