Need advice: Flugabone, bass trumpet, or what?

[Funk Euph]

Here's my dilemma: I'm an amateur, self-taught euph player and the leader of a New Orleans-style second-line band. Up to now, I've been played a beat-up old Conn. baritone and, more recently, a lovely Jupiter 470S. Because the band is a loose collection of about 24 musicians, of whom maybe 15 show up on a given day, and because I write most of the arrangements, I end up covering a lot of different parts on different days. The Jupiter is pretty good for that - especially because the 4th valve lets me get down on those tuba lines properly - but I'm thinking I might like something a little lighter, both in terms of weight and sound, to cover the trumpet and sax parts better. So I'm looking at bass trumpets and marching trombones (flugabones). Unfortunately, I don't really have access to samples of either instrument where I live, so I'm going to have to take the plunge on one sight unseen.

I also don't want to spend a ton of money, since I'm not making my living off this. People on here say that, if you must get a Chinese-made horn, Wessex has good customer service and quality control, so I'm looking at their flugabone - http://www.wessex-tubas.com/flugabone/ - and their piston bass trumpet - http://www.wessex-tubas.com/piston-bass-trumpet/. I'd also, of course, be very open to a used horn, and I have my eyes on ebay and craigslist all the time.

My question for you experts is this: Given that I'm playing funk, second-line, and a bit of jazz (no classical AT ALL), and given that there is no way that the gigs my band plays will ever make this a career (that's what happens when you have 20+ people in the band!), should I go with a marching 'bone or a bass trumpet? The 'bone seems to win in the versatility category, but the trumpet seems to get points in the weight and melody categories.

[davewerden]

Wessex does a great job, although I have not played these 2 instruments myself. Of the two, I think you would be happier with the marching bone. You could also try the marching baritone:

http://www.wessex-tubas.com/marching-baritone/

Be aware, though, that none of these have 4 valves. I don't think I've ever seen one that does, but it's possible somebody makes one. Anyway, bass lines may not be an option unless you move the octave as needed.

[Funk Euph]

Thanks! I'm trying to stay away from the marching baritone because it's a fair bit heavier than the marching 'bone. And I've made my peace with the lost low-end - I figure, I have the jupiter for tuba-doubling, but I need something light for trumpet doubling. (Also, the band has two other fairly reliable low brass players, but the trumpeters are all kinda flaky!)

[ghmerrill]

I'm confused. If you need something light for trumpet doubling and the band already has the low brass otherwise covered, what I'd be inclined to do is to buy a reasonable used cornet (or flugelhorn) and learn to play it. Those are (a) light, and (b) appropriate for covering trumpet parts.

[Funk Euph]

1. I'm lazy and I don't want to master a small mouthpiece.
2. I have to cover EVERYTHING from time to time, so an in-between voice is useful.

Anyway, it's moot. I lucked into an old Blessing marching baritone in perfect condition on Craigslist for $150. It's heavy, but not that heavy, and I rigged up a right hand strap so I can play it one-handed (important for marching while pulling a hand truck with a loudspeaker on it). So that's that.

[Koukalaka]

I'm glad I came across this thread, as I'm thinking about adding a marching baritone to my collection of brass instruments as well. I'm primarily a pianist but I played the trumpet as a kid, and I returned to brass playing about a year and a half ago after a long break when I realized that my trumpet fingerings could be used to play the euphonium or baritone in treble clef. I purchased a Mack Brass compensating euph and fell in love. I think if I'd found the euphonium as a teenager, I would never have quit playing brass!

I enjoy messing with different instruments and just added an inexpensive Chinese no-name flugelhorn that I bought on eBay for less than $250. (By the way, I was shocked at how nice this instrument is for that price, cosmetically and in terms of playability and valve action.) I've been looking at some of the Schiller instruments that Jim Laabs sells, like the compact rotary baritone, and also the marching baritone and marching trombone. I wish Mack Brass offered these, because I was so pleased by Tom's service and by the quality of the Mack euph. Does anyone have experience with the Schiller rotary baritone or marching baritone and trombone?

[John Morgan]

Check out Wessex at http://www.wessex-tubas.com/category...arching-brass/

I own a Wessex Dolce Euphonium, and it is great. They have a ton of different instruments and seem to be getting more and more. Very good quality, inexpensive and backed with great customer care. I don't think you can go wrong with these, and they have a marching baritone and trombone.

[Koukalaka]

Wow, that Wessex "Kaiser Baritone" is a cool-looking horn. 4 valves, too. I believe Jim Laabs carries the same horn, although they call it a rotary 4-valve euphonium.

For a long time I've been daydreaming about getting a Mack CC tuba. Tom's YouTube videos of this tuba are very cool. But I've messed around a few times with tubas and it's clear to me that it would take substantial work to develop the proper embouchure, and I'm worried this would then mess up my euph chops just as I'm finally getting a hang of the intonation. A baritone of some sort might be a nice alternative that would sound and play differently but might pose less risk of confusing my lips when I'm back on the euphonium. Or am I off-base here? I know some of you guys play both tuba and euphonium, how hard is it to do both without sacrificing your progress on euphonium?

[John Morgan]

I play euphonium, tenor trombone and bass trombone, all pretty regularly, with the euphonium getting most of my attention. I play euphonium in two concert bands, bass trombone in a symphony orchestra, and tenor trombone in a band and quintet. There is a bit of a switch when going from one to the other. I played the Bydlo solo in Pictures at an Exhibition at our March concert with the symphony. I started the piece on bass trombone, then switched to euphonium for one of the movements before Bydlo so I could acclimate my chops before the solo. Also, so the horn would not be so cold from sitting. Worked ok, buy you really have to be on your game to switch effortlessly. I would think the switch from euphonium to tuba would be a far bit more difficult. I have messed with the tuba on occasion, and I find the mouthpiece, as one recent presidential candidate might say, HUGE! People do it, but I am not sure if they might be sacrificing (however little) their euphonium chops in doing so. I know that when I play bass trombone a lot in preparation for a concert or in working on a particular piece of music, my euphonium chops take a bit of time to get back to normal. My muscle and mental memory for hitting notes suffers ever so slightly as well, until I am fully back on the euphonium full time.

I even have a slight bit of adjusting in switching from euphonium to tenor trombone, even though the mouthpieces I use are close in size, at least much closer than the euphonium and bass trombone mouthpieces.

I think it is a truism that if you play solely on one horn with one mouthpiece and do that all the time, that will be your overall best result. Any deviation to another instrument will take away (however small) from your "main" horn. Some will surely argue with that assumption, but from playing for well over a half century, this is what I believe to be true. But, hey, I do it right now, and I probably won't stop. You just have to accept the consequences.

[ghmerrill]

That Wessex horn appears to be a direct copy of one of the Cerveny oval euphoniums. Virtually the same as the old Amati I have. You might not like the sound you get out of it since it leans a bit towards a trombone timbre rather than the more mellow classic euphonium sound. But they are great horns (as long as you're not sitting to left of someone playing it).

I'm by far primarily a tuba player, but I don't have any problem with the tuba/euphonium mouthpiece/embouchure issue. What I DO have a problem with is switching between my bass trombone and the tuba. It's partly the different embouchure required, and it's partly the feel and timbre of the instruments. I've been playing lot of bass trombone recently, and when I switch back to the tuba I find myself frequently playing the wrong partial in the middle/upper of the bass clef staff. I seem not to have this problem at all when switching between tuba and euphonium. Of course, the euphonium is just a little tuba, or the tuba is just a big euphonium. In my case this is especially true since I'm playing an Eb 3+1 compensating tuba. The trombone is a much freer blowing instrument and (to me) requires quite different embouchure and control to get the right sound.

[davewerden]

For a long time I've been daydreaming about getting a Mack CC tuba. Tom's YouTube videos of this tuba are very cool. But I've messed around a few times with tubas and it's clear to me that it would take substantial work to develop the proper embouchure, and I'm worried this would then mess up my euph chops just as I'm finally getting a hang of the intonation. A baritone of some sort might be a nice alternative that would sound and play differently but might pose less risk of confusing my lips when I'm back on the euphonium. Or am I off-base here? I know some of you guys play both tuba and euphonium, how hard is it to do both without sacrificing your progress on euphonium?

Speaking from the perspective of a euphonium-first player, I find a tuba a good double. My tuba is an E-flat compensating with piston valves, so that eases the comfort factor quite a bit. Wessex has a tuba very much like mine:

http://www.wessex-tubas.com/eeb-solo/

I suspect it would be harder to go back & forth if I used a rotary-valve tuba instead.

If I need to double in the same day, that's no problem as long as I have been practicing on both daily. For me, at least, I would be uncomfortable switching from tuba to euphonium without a half hour or more in between the two. I could switch more quickly from euphonium to tuba, but my tuba tone would not be as good in that case. For me, at least, I need to get a reasonable warm-up on either horn to get proper results.

If anything, playing both regularly actually helps my euphonium chops! Tuba seems to give my chops a little more muscle strength compared to practicing only euphonium, and naturally it is good to help develop better air support.

[Dubby]

I started on euphonium in high school, then taught myself trombone senior year and now am on a tuba scholarship in college. As Mr. Werden mentioned, I don't have many issues switching between euphonium and tuba, but with bass bone and tuba I can struggle with the partials on bass bone. I just had a concert playing bass bone in three pieces and tuba in one for our orchestra, and that was definitely an experience.