I've been looking to get a horn to upgrade from the YEP321 that I share with a rather reluctant guy. My lesson teacher is a fan of the Accent 757 but the horn I've been used to is a YEP642 over the last two years. At first I was looking at the Schiller Elite since it has good reviews at a very good price, but the Wessex horn also came to my attention with its improvements. My question is, is it worth the extra over the Schiller? I'd want to go for the silver/gold trim if I can on either horn, but Schiller's site doesn't have the price listed for the Elite (no numbers) in that color scheme.
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Is Wessex worth the extra over other Jinbaos?
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I personally would avoid the Schiller and go with Wessex. It is worth the extra money. They have made several improvements over the Schiller and also visit the factory to play-test every horn before it ships. Here is the Wessex owner's description of the process:
For quality checking, I believe Wessex is second to none - we now fly to China BEFORE each shipment leaves factory and carefully inspect and play test every single instrument against a check list. We will not accept any that are not up to standard. Any that require corrective action go back to the factory floor for attention. That can be to the extent of stripping lacquer/silver and completely reassembling, or changing components (happened on 6 euphoniums). They then have to come back to us to check again. The serial number of each instrument is noted, so we can check that problems really are fixed. Once approved, signed checklist is put in bag with instrument for customer assurance. Once in the UK, or USA we will then check again and oil valves before shipping/collection by customer. I am sure our new checking process will ensure that quality standards will ever rise, as the factory will realise what is not acceptable and take measures so we do not reject for same reason in future orders.
http://www.wessex-tubas.com/euphonium/Last edited by davewerden; 12-08-2015, 06:05 PM.Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
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Twitter: davewerden
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I can't speak for Schiller's line, but I love my lacquered Wessex Dolce. Have had it for close to 10 months now, and for the money I put into it, I'm a happy customer. A section mate of mine also purchased one in silver after he tried mine out, and he also really enjoys his. I don't think you can go wrong with the Wessex, between the warranty, modifications, and Jonathan's well-regarded customer service. I'm sure Jim Laabs' Schiller line is fine too, but you know what they say, you get what you pay for.Michael Lajeunesse
Wessex Dolce in Lacquer, Dennis Wick 4AL with DW 'tone booster' MP sleeve
Cosmopolitan Music Society of Edmonton, euphonium section
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Your question can be reliably answered only by someone who has had and used both instruments. And I don't think I've seen anyone here who has done that (though there has been a recent thread comparing the Wessex to the Mack Brass in that way.) The next best thing is to look at what people have said who have owned one or the other instrument -- not just a Wessex or a Schiller, but a Wessex or Schiller of the exact model you're contemplating. The next best thing is to look at what people who have owned some Wessex and some Schiller have said. And sometimes (often?) it's not just about the instrument, but with things like warrantee, return policy, etc.
I have a Wessex tuba, a Schiller bass trombone, and a Mack Brass euphonium (of the model you're considering). You could probably do well with the Schiller, and various people have. But their return policy is that they will provide only an exchange and not a refund. And you're taking a bit of a chance. Mack Brass and Wessex sell fundamentally the same instrument as one another (look closely at the descriptions and see if there are any differences that may matter to you. Mac Brass has a full unconditional guarantee for this particular instrument -- meaning that if there is ANYTHING you don't like about it you can return it for a full refund including shipping: http://www.mackbrass.com/Euphoniums.html. Wessex also offers a full money-back guarantee, but it's not clear that it includes shipping, and they offer a 3-year warranty against defects. Mack has a 2-year warranty on defects.
In general, I don't buy that "you get what you pay for" in a highly competitive market since in such a situation there will be price differentials you can take advantage of in the context of the dynamic competition. And sometimes you can get a really good deal if you're careful or get lucky.
Whether the Wessex is worth the extra money over the Schiller depends on exactly what you want in terms of some of the comparative features (again, they are basically the same horn with a few differences and the promise of better quality control) and whether you're willing to take the chance that the horn will not have any problems. Whether the Wessex is worth the extra money (a couple of hundred dollars) over the Mack is a closer call and depends in part on how much the couple of hundred dollars means to you. The Wessex has some nice features. I bought my tuba from Wessex (paying about $500 dollars more at the time) because of the single feature of the raised lead pipe -- it mattered that much to me. So a big part of your question is "What matters most to you? Price? Features? Quality? Warrantee? Return policy?". Consider all that together, and go for it.Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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Disclosure: I have not had a chance to play a Mack Brass.
However, I have personally tested both a Schiller and a Wessex and found the latter more impressive for tone and response.
And, on a broader concept, I like that Wessex is holding the factory's feet to the fire with each batch of instruments. That should do a lot to increase the quality, and as Gary said, the extra quality may become one of the competitive things that improves the breed among all the makers.Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
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I own a Mack Brass Tuba and Euphonium and just recently purchased a Wessex Bass Trombone and Tenor trombone. I am happy with both companies and don't feel you could go wrong with either. I personally would avoid Schiller for two reasons. The first is the return policy that Gary mentions. Second is the deceptive attempt to make the uninformed purchaser believe the instruments are German made when they are not. I personally don't like the labeling of "Frankfurt Germany" when all the equipment is manufactured in China. Others may not care but it bothers me. I don't think there is any type of quality check on the Schiller side but I could be wrong. Best wishes with your choice.John 3:16
Conn Victor 5H Trombone
Yamaha 354 Trombone
Conn 15I Euphonium
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As posted in another thread recently, I've played the Schiller 3 valve compensating baritone and the Wessex back to back, and there was no contest. The Wessex ran circles around the Schiller. I haven't compared my Wessex Dolce euph to any other euphonium (other than my Olds) but I really love it...it feels like a hybrid of the German Bessons and the old Yamaha 642 and I'm looking forward to comparing it against the top shelf euphs at the army conference next year.- Scott
Euphoniums: Dillon 967, Monzani MZEP-1150S, Dillon 1067 (kid’s horn)
Bass Trombones: Greenhoe GB5-3G, Getzen 1052FDR, JP232
King Jiggs P-bone
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Originally posted by Davidus1 View Post... the deceptive attempt to make the uninformed purchaser believe the instruments are German made when they are not. I personally don't like the labeling of "Frankfurt Germany" when all the equipment is manufactured in China. Others may not care but it bothers me. ...
I don't think there is any type of quality check on the Schiller side but I could be wrong.
And in ALL cases, caveat emptor.Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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Thanks, Gary. Your opinions and mine sometimes converge and sometimes diverge, but I think you speak in the language of reality with this phrase:
if you go into this with your eyes open...
and this one:
And in ALL cases, caveat emptor.
That is partly what I like about this forum. We inform people with a variety of opinions, which should help open eyes a little wider. When I go shopping I like to be armed with facts, and I like to think we all help others achieve that same goal.Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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I owned a Wessex for a over a year and was able to play a few different models of Schiller in Minnesota at one of Laabs stores. The Wessex to me felt more substantial and had a more pleasing tone to my ears. I would also echo the statements regarding both companies as well: Wessex has always been helpful and truthful to me, but Schiller outright lied to me about horns they had in stock and origins. Oh well.
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I own a Yamaha 642 neo as well as the Wessex. Both borns have their purpose for me and both horns have their pros and cons. The fit and finish is much better on my Yamaha which is to be expected at 5 times the cost but both horns play very nice. The Wessex is more free blowing and in my opinion responds slightly better than my neo. It may be the floating leadpipe on the Wessex or the fact that it is lighter that makes it respond better than the neo. Also my Wessex is siver vs lacquer on my neo. As far as sound the neo seems more focused and dark while the Wessex has a bigger and more open sound. This is how it sounds to my ears. I like the sound of both horns and to choose one over the other would be difficult. Customer service on the Wessex has been great and they really do stand behind their product.
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