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Thread: Sharp Schiller

  1. #1

    Sharp Schiller

    I have a new C/Bb Schiller that appears to blow sharp on several
    valves when the spit needs to be evacuated (before I get the
    bubbling sound). Does this make any sense? Anyone else
    experience this?
    Thanks,
    Dick S.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    No, that doesn't make sense to me. I've not ever experienced on any horn.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,369
    Just a wild idea, but ...

    You may have the cause and effect backwards. That is, it may not be that the excess water is causing the sharpness, but that the excess water is being caused by how you're playing the instrument -- and you're playing it in such a way (embouchure, breath support, etc.) that you're putting more water into it, and THIS (embouchure, breath support, ...) is causing the sharpness AND the excess water.

    I mention this because I've been working with my new bass trombone recently and noticed that I was getting a LOT of condensation/water in it -- having to empty through the water valve very frequently. Much more than when I play tuba or euphonium. But this has disappeared as I've settled on the mouthpiece I want and have developed a better embouchure on the trombone. The high condensation has gone away. And of course the sound and intonation have gotten better as well.

    So just a thought, but I'd suggest directing your attention to your embouchure and breath control to see if you're doing something wonky with the new instrument and maybe trying to force things (especially in the high register). If you're playing with a tight embouchure, then that's your problem -- assuming there isn't something fundamentally wrong with the instrument.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  4. Hijacking the thread here, but how "tight" is "just right tight"? My tone and power on my New Standard are much better than they ever were with my Conn 30i, but they still do not approach what I hear on Youtube. I thought perhaps my embouchure was not tight enough (like maybe I should pull the corners further back?), but I find I have to drain water on the N.S. more often than I think I should.
    Harry Nuttall

    Bach Stradivarius New York model 8II tenor trombone #28xx
    Besson New Standard #438xxx
    Besson "Prototype" euphonium #510xx
    Conn 30I Wonderphone double-belled euphonium #327xxx
    Hawkes & Son Excelsior Sonorous #534xx
    Holton Revelation euphonium #753xx
    Holton Revelation euphonium #797xx

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    338
    I have it backwards, When I get a new instrument I hardly get any condensation and/or spit, but after a week or two it's just as normal - emptying the tubes and spit gutter whenever I have the chance. There's always a huge pond of water next to my music stand XD

    Also, when I got my 1979 Besson Sovereign, the concert E and F where off-the-charts sharp, but now (after a good month) they're fine. It also has a lot to do with getting used to an instruments 'character' and the instrument 'settling' in. And keep that embouchure strong. I noticed last wednesday at band practice that these notes started to go sharp again, after I did not play on it for a week. Also, I didn't play for the three days before that wednesday. So basically, just keep playing and you'll notice what's the case.
    Euphoniums
    2008 Willson 2960TA Celebration
    1979 Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp)
    Mouthpiece: Denis Wick SM4
    Baritone
    1975 Besson New Standard
    Mouthpiece: Courtois 10

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,369
    I find that I always have problems in switching instruments because of the timbre. Just because a tone is the same frequency on two different horns, that doesn't mean that it SOUNDS the same -- and this frequently throws me off. I'm going through that now with the bass trombone. And even after I get it in the privacy of my own home, playing in ensemble is another step. A Bb (for example) on the trombone just doesn't sound like a Bb on the euph -- even if I'm using the same mouthpiece.

    In terms of "how tight is tight"? I don't have a clue. That's a matter of your own facial/muscular structure, your mouthpiece, your instrument, and the note you're playing. I just know that usually when I'm having trouble it's because I'm subconsciously trying to correct for poor embouchure by pressing the mouthpiece harder into my face. I confess I don't ever think in terms like "pulling the corners back" -- which seems more like something I'd do on a saxophone or clarinet mouthpiece, or a flute. Generally I think something like "rounder and less pressure; use the muscles and not the mouthpiece". Works for me.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

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