New Wessex Elf Eb tuba

[Jonathantuba]

Using the same bell and bows as the 4-valve compensated Bombino Eb tuba (http://www.wessex-tubas.com/product/bombino/), Wessex is following with new student/junior 3-valve non-compensated Eb to be called the Elf with reference number TE333. Although it has the look of classic British design, it is in fact a new design.

Made specifically for younger players, this has the mouthpiece receiver positioned lower than on the Bombino and is supplied with new JT mouthpiece with smaller diameter rim for smaller faces. Like its professional Bombino sibling, it has exceptional good intonation (for 3-valve, non-compensated), is free blowing and has good tone. I am personally very pleased with this new Junior model which will be available December (the picture shows unfinished prototype).

Obviously aimed mainly at the British market (where most start on Eb), it joins the equally good playing TB330 Junior BBb tuba which is proving very popular with US and Canadian schools as a student tuba - http://www.wessex-tubas.com/product/tb330/

Pricing for the new TE333 Elf will be the same as the TB330 BBb.

[davewerden]

That's a great idea, Jonathan! I think it's important to offer younger players instruments that are 1) suitable for their physical size and 2) good-playing horns. Often they have had to choose between those two options.

As far as the finish goes... these days you could probably charge a little extra to have horns that look like the photos you shared

[Koukalaka]

Hello! I'm resurrecting this thread to ask a few questions. I play a Mack Brass compensating euphonium and CC tuba, and I'm looking for something in between in terms of size. I had been thinking of the "Stumpy" BBb tuba, and I was hoping there would be a CC version. But I'm becoming more open to the idea of an Eb tuba. I can't currently afford the compensating "Bombino" right now, but I'm concerned that the "Elf" might be awkward for me if it's designed for children. It looks like you supply this horn with a smaller-than-usual mouthpiece and that the lead pipe position is designed for kids. How would this work for an adult?

[Jonathantuba]

There are many adults with the Elf. It works just fine and the supplied smaller mouthpiece may work particularly well for a euphonium doubler. If not, any standard tuba mouthpiece will fit.

Although this is sold as student tuba, I am particularly pleased with how well it plays. It plays like a professional tuba, just with the limitations of only 3-valves non-compensating.

[ghmerrill]

This is the problem with 3-valved Eb tubas: to some degree, intonation may be a bit wonky in places, and lack of the fourth valve may significantly limit range. It's fine for beginning students and for certain kinds of music, but for real tuba parts such as those encountered in community bands, it can be quite limiting. Similarly, for quintet work it may not work out well at all.

But I say "MAY significantly limit range" because especially in the case of 3-valve Eb instruments, this depends very much on the particular horn or model of the horn. The critical question is: "So how are the false ('ghost') tones on it?" Does it in fact have a reliable chromatic scale down to it's fundamental? My 1924 Buescher does (though its intonation in some places above the staff is a bit of an issue). What about this horn? Is that extra lower octave truly accessible? Or is this really a beginner's instrument suitable for middle school level tuba music and some other small group activities?

[Koukalaka]

Okay--first impressions of the Wessex "Elf": I love it! I purchased this as an inexpensive second tuba that would be easier to transport, and I like it a lot. Smooth valve action right out of the box, nicely finished, lightweight but solid-feeling, and I found it to be easy to produce a nice full tone. The included mouthpiece is small (reminds me of my euphonium mouthpieces), and for me the instrument sounds better when I swap in my Conn Helleberg.

With respect to false tones, as Gary mentioned--I am probably not a good person to give an opinion on this. I've never attempted to produce these before, as my other instruments are a compensating euph and a 5v CC tuba where it hasn't been necessary. I played around a bit with bending pitches in the low register and I was able to fill in most of the scale, but I have no means to judge how easy this was relative to other instruments. At my skill level I certainly wouldn't be able to accurately hit false tones jumping from note to note. But again, I've never attempted this before. I will say that very little if any of the music I've been playing reaches below the normal fingered range of this instrument. I'm sure that those of you who are advanced players do this more often.

Incidentally, I'm used to playing CC tuba (and euphonium in treble clef), but I am finding transposition with the Eb instrument to be MUCH easier than my attempts to transpose euph BC in my head. Picture in TC rather than BC, add three sharps/delete three flats, move C/F/G accidentals all up a half-step, and voila, it seems pretty easy except in the more technical passages.

[ghmerrill]

I played around a bit with bending pitches in the low register and I was able to fill in most of the scale, but I have no means to judge how easy this was relative to other instruments. At my skill level I certainly wouldn't be able to accurately hit false tones jumping from note to note. But again, I've never attempted this before.

You may not be taking quite the right approach -- from how you describe it. You don't get false tones by "bending" other tones. These are genuine resonances (not flattened versions of "normal" pitches) that aren't really supposed to be there strictly in terms of the physics based on the length of the tube, but owing to the complexity of the acoustics in a conical bore instrument of that size, they "appear". On some instruments they are VERY "pure" sounding and stable. Some tubists, on some tubas, prefer some of them to corresponding "normal" pitches achieved through the usual fingerings. On others, they're just not there.

It takes some time and effort to get them -- and to do so reliably. You have to hear the pitch you want, and then play it. Look on the web for suggested fingerings, and experiment. Playing to a drone may help considerably.

The fingerings I have marked for my Buescher Eb tuba are:

Below the bass clef staff and going down ...
(A, usual fingering: 1 + 2 + 3 -- typically quite sharp )

Ghost tones:
Ab: open
G: 2
Gb: 1
F: 1 + 2
E: 2+ 3

(Fundamental) Eb: open

You may need to experiment with these (particularly the F and E) since where that false tone lies is a bit instrument-dependent. But it's NOT a matter of "lipping" or "bending". If the false tone is there, then it's THERE. You may need to work on "centering" the pitch and on tone quality. And you can't expect it to speak with quite the same volume or "gravitas" as the normal pitches.

[Koukalaka]

Aha, I see. Interesting—I will give this a try!

[hornbag]

i bought an Elf too, coz cant get a decent new Eb in Australia new for under $2K. Unfortunately valves weren’t great so I dismantled to clean. could not undo bottom cap on first valve, needed to use a tool. Discovered it’s the thread on the valve case, as the cap works on the other ones. Top cap threading on first still not great after cleaning which is annoying at rehearsal to oil quickly, but valves getting there with use and cleaning. I have read other reports that these threadings are a problem as a student horn. Anyway that aside, it’s been great in my community band, sounds better inside than the Sousa (don’t tell him!)
Apart from the valve cap threading issue, i’m very happy with it. Originally, I was going to get the Bb Stubby, as fingering same as euph, but it was sold out, but I’m glad I first borrowed a crappy lafluer Eb to learn blowing and fingering, the Elf blows it out of the water.

[Jonathantuba]

Sorry you have had trouble with the valve caps. They are getting better all the time, but not as consistently good as Wessex would like. Getting these perfect is still I am afraid work in progress.

But otherwise I am pleased you agree how well the Elf plays and are enjoying.

[Koukalaka]

The threads on my Elf were clean and smooth right out of the box and the valves have worked great with minimal oiling. I did have a similar problem once with a Mack Brass tuba, but it turned out that the threads were machined just fine—there was just a bit of lapping compound in the valve cap threads. I cleaned the threads with a toothbrush, dish soap, and plenty of water, and after applying a little slide grease I found that they worked perfectly. With those fine threads it doesn’t take much grit to make them seem rough.

[Koukalaka]

Incidentally, I have switched mouthpieces back to the included one, which I am growing to love. I think it’s labeled “Wessex JT”, I assume for “junior tuba”. I wish they sold this one—I’m a euphonium doubler and would like another one for my CC tuba because it works so well!

[ghmerrill]

Considering the number of instruments being sold, this is something that the Chinese factories just shouldn't be having a problem with any longer. It's continued evidence of their attitude towards quality control and customer focus more than anything else. You know they CAN do it, but ...?

Anyhow, two suggestions:

The first is just to repeat the cleaning suggestion. You should clean ANY new horn thoroughly before you start to use it. It's very common for lapping and polishing compounds to be left in various places. I think it's part of cost-saving techniques for manufacturers to be slack with this. Take care in how you do this because one problem with the Chinese instruments historically has been with the softness of the brass. If you apply too much force to the thread (either by pulling or pushing while tightening/loosening it or by cleaning with some instrument), you can "bend" some of the thread material and cause yourself a worse problem. Be gentle. (With my 1924 Buescher tuba, I don't worry about this, but things have changed.)

At times, the threads on valve caps and and casings are not well cut -- either because of sloppy process, or a tool has gotten out of alignment, or (more likely) because a cutter has dulled and not been swapped out (more cost cutting). I had one particular problem with this on the 2nd valve of my Wessex Eb tuba.

One ultimate approach is to take the instrument to a repair tech who can "chase" the threads (basically re-cut them and true them up). It's not complicated, but you need to have the tools to do it. Even then, if the brass is too soft (as has been true in the past of a lot of the Chinese instruments), this may or may not be totally satisfactory. What I did was to use a little bit of silicone grease on the cap threads and the casing threads (in my case DOW-Corning, but you can get small packets of this in Lowes or Home Depot in the plumbing section -- and it makes EXCELLENT slide grease). You don't want to use too much, but use a decent amount. Not only does this lubricate the treads (as oil does as well), but it more effectively fills the threads (which oil doesn't do so well) to avoid the thread wandering or cross-threading. I discovered that after I'd done this for some time, the removing/replacing of my problem valve cap became much better. I still had to take some care, but it went on and off in a straightforward way. And it no longer loosened up by itself from time to time as it had displayed a tendency to do.

Threads can be bad in a few different ways (in addition to being cut in material that's too soft). They can be cut too shallowly, they can be cut so that a portion of the thread isn't straight, but wanders a bit (a dull cutter or soft material will do this), and they can be cut in such a way that the "valley" (groove) of the thread isn't of consistent depth or the correct "v" shape. Any of these faults can give you problems with starting the thread or with cross-threading or with the thread "catching" properly or improperly. The silicone grease can at least help some of these conditions, but for others, chasing (re-cutting) the thread may be needed. Ultimately, I assume that's a warranty issue if it's a significant problem for you.

[John Morgan]

Gary: Interesting that you mention issues on the 2nd valve of your Wessex Eb tuba. I have the same issue on the 2nd valve of my Eb Bombino. All of the valve caps are a little fussy when trying to put them back on, but on the 2nd valve I have to allow myself virtually "minutes" of horsing around with it to get it on. I could not do a quick valve oiling between pieces at a performance for fear of not being able to get the valve cap back on. I will check on the cleanliness of the cap threads, etc., but I suspect it is just a case of not quite getting this right. I, too, wonder why this is such a persistent problem that has not been resolved. It is not rocket science. I do like the horn, but the valve caps are a disappointment and irritant.

I'll try your silicone grease suggestion to see if that helps. I hate oiling my 2nd valve because I know it is going to take me some time to get the valve cap back on. And I think I know all the "tricks" to putting a testy valve cap back on.

[hornbag]

Thanks Gary, you make excellent points re cleaning a new horn. And taking to shop for a look over.
Given the grit I discovered in all slides and valves in my new Elf, I did water clean it out as much as practical. However the first valve threading (top and bottom cap) is still an issue. Makes me think what you said about cheap tools etc, could be a factor as to where threading issues originate, shallower thread on 1st valve Anyway I’ll try scoring some of the grooves.
That’s the only issue, my community band doesn’t need a huge bass so the Elf has been great stepping up from euphonium.