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  • preston
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2015
    • 17

    Looking for Euph mouthpiece

    Hey guys, first time posting on this forum.

    I'm a junior in high school and am looking for a new euphonium mouthpiece. This is my 5th year playing euphonium after a year of trombone, and I'm the sole euphonist in our top band (yes, it's lonely). I started taking private lessons a few weeks ago, and one thing that surprised my teacher was my mouthpiece choice (I currently play on a large shank Bach 1 1/2G). He said euphonists usually don't play on such big mouthpieces, and that as a 16 year old, I'd probably be better off on something smaller. I like a bigger mouthpiece, and feel most comfortable in the low range. However, as I am now the only euphonist in my band, I now have a few solos that require notes much higher than I've ever played. I can reach these notes (Bb, Cish) but they sound somewhat thin and take much more effort. I fear my mouthpiece may be slightly hurting me in the higher register. In marching band I play on a small shank Bach 6 1/2 AL (marching baritone), and although I think that that mouthpiece works best for marching band, I don't think I'd be too fond of it in a concert setting. So what I've learned is that:

    A) My current mouthpiece is a very generic bass trombone mouthpiece

    B) I *think* I'm looking for something around a Bach 3 to 5G (Something that is smaller and will help with clarity of articulation and high notes, etc. but will also still have a very resonant timbre. I'd slightly prefer a better timbre over a better range)

    I've done some research online, and have found many mouthpieces. My parents say that if I make it into the All-State honor band, they will buy me a euphonium mouthpiece (granted it's under 75ish dollars). I've found a few I'd like to ask about:

    1) Should I stick with my 1 1/2G mouthpiece and just practice more of the higher range, or should I look for something particularly different?

    2) At my level, should I worry about the quality difference in say, a Blessing 4G and an equivalent sized Schilke? (I'm hoping to keep the mouthpiece through high school and maybe some or all of college, as I do not own my own euphonium due to their price)

    3) What are the dimensions of a Benge 59? I've read from this site that Benge became a part of Conn-King-Benge, which I'm assuming is Conn-Selmer today. I've also heard that Benge followed Bach's universal mouthpiece size, but I've only seen examples of smaller mouthpieces (like 12c's or 6 1/2 AL's).
    Would a Benge 59 be about the same as a Schilke 59? In that case, that's even bigger than a 1 1/2G, isn't it? (I found this mouthpiece on craigslist, brand new and gold-plated, for pretty cheap)

    Any other feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I don't get much input from my schoolmates (There are 5 euphonium players total in our school, and no private instructors that play euphonium primarily). Thanks for taking the time to read all of this and I think you guys are the greatest.

    (TL;DR What mouthpiece should I get as a high-school euphonist?)
    Preston
    Freshman Euphonist attending Boise State University
    Member of the BSU Symphonic Winds and Blue Thunder Marching Band
    1943 Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (Denis Wick SM3X)
    Yamaha YBH-301M (Schilke 58)
  • RickF
    Moderator
    • Jan 2006
    • 3871

    #2
    Hi Preston,

    Welcome to the forum. Yes, a 1-1/2 G is pretty big for euphonium. If you were only going to play in the 'basement', that size could work well. See this discussion thread:

    New Experience - Bach 1-1/2 G - How low is low?


    The 6-1/2 for marching baritone sounds alright but that would probably be too small for you on euphonium since you're used the the 1-1/2G. I would suggest you try a Wick 4AL or 3AL if you want to stay on the larger size. The Bach 4G should work too.

    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc

    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches

    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    The Cowboys (John Williams, arr. James Curnow)
    Festive Overture (Dmitri Shostakovich)

    Comment

    • preston
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2015
      • 17

      #3
      Mr. Floyd,

      Thanks for the response!

      I actually have the mouthpieces you listed on my watch list as we speak. One of the Wicks (3AL) is 58$ used, and it is also gold plated. Other than a few scuff marks, it seems to be in playable shape. Is this a good price for this mouthpiece, in the condition it's in? Here's the online auction with pictures/details:

      http://www.ebay.com/itm/311423411153

      Thanks,
      Preston
      Last edited by preston; 09-25-2015, 11:11 AM. Reason: typo
      Freshman Euphonist attending Boise State University
      Member of the BSU Symphonic Winds and Blue Thunder Marching Band
      1943 Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (Denis Wick SM3X)
      Yamaha YBH-301M (Schilke 58)

      Comment

      • Cameron J.
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2015
        • 176

        #4
        I'll throw my 2 cents worth in. It can also depend on what horn you are using. Some mouthpieces suit some euphoniums better then others. Yes a Bach 1 1/2 G is way too big for euphonium. You would be looking around the 3-4 universal size. I think anything along a Bach 3G - 4G is good. I'll throw it out there, give the DW Steven Mead Ultras a go. They are a beautiful mouthpiece and I can't speak highly enough of them. I find they give off a nicer and more deep tone then the standard DW mouthpieces (3AL/4AL) as the standards sound too 'trombone like' for me. However it is up to you. Bach's are still really popular. There are Yamaha's and Schilke's as well but I don't know the size equivalent. I would recommend to go to your local music tech and test a whole range out. You will notice that you will have a much brighter tone on the 3 or 4 but give it time it will warm up.

        Comment

        • jadesayade
          Junior Member
          • May 2015
          • 19

          #5
          Ah, mouthpieces.

          There are a couple different ways that you can go about this, but this is what I believe would probably be best for you.

          Do you get everything that you could ever want out of what you're playing right now? In other words; does the 'piece work for you. Can you play your entire range easily for extended periods of time? Do you get the tone that you want? Does it feel "right"?

          If you don't know where to even start answering those questions then it is probably best that you buy a smaller 'piece as most people don't find the 1.5G to be optimal on euphonium for most playing circumstances. You could also ask your instructor to help you blind-test some mouthpieces if you're really serious. I'm assuming that s/he asked you to change because you weren't getting an optimal tone and s/he identified it as being too tubby, but different instructors have different view on mouthpieces so that may not necessarily be the case.

          Another bit of advice: if you can possibly try out some mouthpieces before purchasing them you should absolutely do so. If you can do it in a good space where you can listen to yourself that is even better. I have spent hundreds of dollars on mouthpieces online only to find out that I don't really like them all that much.

          Just as something to say overall: you do you. You should try to recognize others opinions but not let them influence you to the point that you take them as truth over what you discover yourself. I play lead trombone in Jazz Band on a Wick 5BS. Most people look at me like I'm crazy, but I can hit all of the notes that I need to and more, with the tone that I want, and it's more comfortable for me than playing on other mouthpieces. Not everybody will have this experience, but that doesn't really matter because I'm the one playing, not them.

          Good luck on your search.
          -Jared

          Comment

          • preston
            Junior Member
            • Sep 2015
            • 17

            #6
            Cameron,

            Thanks for the input. I updated my horn in my signature, in case that makes a difference. I agree with you on the sizes, I think those are the ones I'm aiming for. I'll do some searching locally and see what I can find.

            Thanks,
            Preston
            Freshman Euphonist attending Boise State University
            Member of the BSU Symphonic Winds and Blue Thunder Marching Band
            1943 Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (Denis Wick SM3X)
            Yamaha YBH-301M (Schilke 58)

            Comment

            • adrian_quince
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2015
              • 277

              #7
              Hi Preston,

              Looking at the specs for your horn, I think you're on the right track. If that 3AL works for you in your price range, then go for it.

              For what it's worth, I'm really not a fan of Bach mouthpieces on euphonium. In my experience, it's harder to get the characteristic euphonium sound on them than on the Wick or Schilke mouthpieces.
              Adrian L. Quince
              Composer, Conductor, Euphoniumist
              www.adrianquince.com

              Kanstul 976 - SM4U

              Comment

              • carbogast
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2006
                • 531

                #8
                Originally posted by preston View Post
                Mr. Floyd,

                Thanks for the response!

                I actually have the mouthpieces you listed on my watch list as we speak. One of the Wicks (3AL) is 58$ used, and it is also gold plated. Other than a few scuff marks, it seems to be in playable shape. Is this a good price for this mouthpiece, in the condition it's in? Here's the online auction with pictures/details:

                http://www.ebay.com/itm/311423411153

                Thanks,
                Preston
                I think I would stay away from that mouthpiece, the marks on the rim suggest that the gold plate has worn through. The rim should be very close to pristine. I think you will be able to find a silver plate in better condition for a reasonable price. Consider: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3113843...chn=ps&lpid=82
                Carroll Arbogast
                Piano Technician
                CMA Piano Care

                Comment

                • John the Theologian
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2013
                  • 245

                  #9
                  Again another plug for the CKB 5G mp. It's a bit deeper and has a larger throat and backbore than the Bach 5G and I believe it makes a great euphonium mouthpiece for the average player such as I am. I'm referring to the ones that the outside cup looks like a Wick rather than a Bach. These mps were also once available under the UMI label-- I have one like that for my large bore trombone-- and the King brand.

                  I don't believe that these mps are now normally available new, but Mouthpiece Express has a bunch of new/old stock for a real bargain price-- $29.95 plus shipping. Comes with a pouch and a brush as well. At those prices it's well worth a try.

                  Here's the link:

                  http://www.ebay.com/itm/CKB-5G-Bass-...item5d5c894f0f

                  Comment

                  • JTJ
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2005
                    • 1089

                    #10
                    Well, everyone has an opinion. Here's mine: try the hot euphonium mouthpiece from 2005, the SM3. I believe it improves on the 3AL (now, many on this forum will disagree, and it is the mp which Steve Mead first designed (it is a modified 3AL). From there, he went to the SM3U (when he wanted cleaner articulation), then the SM3X (when he needed to go a little shallower).

                    It has a great rim and many have a produced a classic great sound on the mouthpiece.

                    I have several and will sell one for $10, to cover the cost of packaging and shipping. PM if you are interested.

                    John

                    Comment

                    • ghmerrill
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 2383

                      #11
                      I'm all for fairly large euphonium mouthpieces, but I haven't tried a 1 1/2G. One problem with mouthpieces that large (e.g., the Schilke 60) is that your intonation may suffer severely.

                      For an easily available and not too expensive mouthpiece, one of the Wicks should be good for you. I'd go with the 3AL (which I often do play on if I'm playing a lot in the low range -- like tuba or bass trombone parts). I think if you look closely at my Avatar here, you'll see that that's a 3AL I'm playing on.

                      My main euphonium mouthpiece is a Doug Elliott which is very close to the 3AL in size (just slightly smaller) and performance. I have a Wick 2NAL but don't like the sound and response I get from it on a euphonium. With a 3AL you can in fact cover the octave below the bass clef staff if you want to. And it's not too large to make a decent high range straightforwardly playable.
                      Gary Merrill
                      Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
                      Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
                      Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
                      1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
                      Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
                      1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

                      Comment

                      • adrian_quince
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2015
                        • 277

                        #12
                        Originally posted by carbogast View Post
                        I think I would stay away from that mouthpiece, the marks on the rim suggest that the gold plate has worn through.
                        Great catch! Looked at the last photo, and that rim is in pretty rotten shape.
                        Adrian L. Quince
                        Composer, Conductor, Euphoniumist
                        www.adrianquince.com

                        Kanstul 976 - SM4U

                        Comment

                        • preston
                          Junior Member
                          • Sep 2015
                          • 17

                          #13
                          Hey all,

                          Thanks for all of the input. I tried out some mouthpieces and eventually decided on a gold plated Schilke 53. It'll be here in about 2 days. I was able to chip in some money with my parent's initial investment so I was able to get it brand new. I'll let you guys know how it works! Thanks a ton for the help.

                          Preston
                          (ps anybody with the same/similar mouthpiece can let me know how it works for them)
                          Freshman Euphonist attending Boise State University
                          Member of the BSU Symphonic Winds and Blue Thunder Marching Band
                          1943 Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (Denis Wick SM3X)
                          Yamaha YBH-301M (Schilke 58)

                          Comment

                          • Rodgeman
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2014
                            • 220

                            #14
                            I play a Schilke D5.3* . It is similar but has a larger throat. I came from bass trombone and played a Doug Yeo mouthpiece on my King 2280 euphonium. It is similar to a Bach 1 1/2G. I think it will work well for you. Mine has helped me become more of a tenor player than bass. It has certainly helped on the endurance and the high range. Good luck!
                            Cerveny BBb Kaiser Tuba
                            __________________________
                            “Don’t only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine.”
                            ― Ludwig van Beethoven

                            Comment

                            • preston
                              Junior Member
                              • Sep 2015
                              • 17

                              #15
                              Thanks! The mouthpiece arrived and it's a beauty.

                              Preston
                              Freshman Euphonist attending Boise State University
                              Member of the BSU Symphonic Winds and Blue Thunder Marching Band
                              1943 Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (Denis Wick SM3X)
                              Yamaha YBH-301M (Schilke 58)

                              Comment

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