Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 52

Thread: lefreQue Plates???

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by RickF View Post
    Great posts by "Snorlax" and "iiipopes"! Very interesting reading.

    I know that "iiipopes" knows about "golfer's lead tape". I still have an interesting post about iiipopes fixing the high B natural on his e̶u̶p̶h̶o̶n̶i̶u̶m̶ 3v Besson Tuba bookmarked from 10 years ago. It's on TubeNet. If interested, you can read Carroll's post here: (can't find the original post by iiipopes).

    Now I'm a Believer! - Warning, Hooey Alert
    The "TubeNet Carroll" is not me, although I also have a Sterling euphonium. However, I know nothing about the Lefreque Plates! - Carroll

  2. #42
    Until very recently, I've always played a Yamaha 321, and I found the high B to be very reliable and consistent on those instruments. In the last year, I've played a couple of compensating euphoniums (Willson and Wessex) and found that note to be very brittle.

    In the danger of stirring up controversy and mixing two threads, I recently applied the largest silver-plated LeFreque plate to the top bend of the Wessex, and it locks that note down and makes it as reliable as it always was on the Yammie. I know, it's not scientific, but it works for me, and if I remove the plate... it goes right back to being unreliable.

    I just played Grainger's Colonial Song this weekend, and during the rehearsals I had to quickly remove the LeFreque to reposition it due to a sympathetic buzz. I didn't have enough time to reapply quickly, and had to play through without it. The middle section with the concert C-flat and numerous B-flats was rough. It took a lot more effort to play, and didn't sound particularly great. I reapplied the plate, and we rehearsed that section again, and (saying this in the third person), it was like there was a different player there. Psychological? Maybe, but it made me a believer. Mind you, I'm not rushing out and putting them on every bend of the instrument, but I think placed strategically, they can add value.

    ...and just to stay on topic, I'm really envious of your Adams. On trombone, I'm an Edwards guy through and through (three complete horns, plus some parts), and there is nothing finer than a custom instrument. I've never sold of any Edwards I've acquired, nor do I think I ever will.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    385
    I have seen the "freques" two years ago in Steven Mead's store; he told it was the greatest invention for euphonium after compensation circuits invented by Blaikley. I immediately though this was an exaggerated statement: how could such stupid brass plates modify the sound of an instrument ? In Steven Mead sound demonstration I found no difference between the sound produced with the plates and with no plates, so considering the high cost of them, I gave up. Anyway the curiosity to taste something new prevailed and I ordered the set of 3 plates "lefreque" in red brass as mentioned by Steven Mead in the video. Really I noted a difference in the sound; the notes are clearer and sound is better. I had them proved by my euphonium friends and they had the same feelings. The best gain is obtained by the plates that connect the mouthpiece with the leadpipe. The most fantastic thing is the change on the famous high Do#; with the plates of 76 mm. between the mouthpiece and the lead pipe, the note, from almost "unobtained" is now easy, perfectly centered as the other notes. Now I strongly believe in "lefreque". N.B. On the trombone and on the baritone I haven't found the same positive results.
    2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  4. #44
    Thanks for the extra perspective!

    One question in my mind was how they would work on the Adams I play, mostly because of the adjustable-gap receiver. That changes the physical structure on the mouthpiece-to-leadpipe connection. So A) I am not sure if the standard plate would fit, and B) would I want to have the plate connect the mouthpiece to the AGR or the AGR to the leadpipe, or both?

    On my own horn I recently replaced the nickel-silver AGR with a stainless steel AGR. The difference in sound output is somewhere between subtle and unnoticeable, but the difference in "feel" is noticeable. With the stainless steel version AGR I feel a tighter connection to the horn - more immediate. It shows up mostly in attacks, where I seem to get more solidity. I wonder if that change of material produces some of the effect of the plates - changing the sound transmission characteristics.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    385
    I heard your recording and the one of Morgan with the AGR Nickel Silver and Stainless steel: there is a light difference between the two sounds; I couldn't say which is the best:
    may be Stainless Steel, but depending on the kind of music it should be possible to prefer the Nickel Silver. I don't know if by adding the "lefreQue" to the AGR of Adams
    the sound could be different; it should be interesting to test. In both cases I think that the difference of the sound is not much heard by the listener, but is well heard by the instrument player. If the player think there is a positive feedback, even the sound produced can be better.
    2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  6. Euphonium: Adams E3 Custom Series (SS Bell)
    Trombone: Benge 175F


  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    1,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    Hope we cross paths someday, John...sounds like we'd have a lot to discuss! I was hoping there would be another ham radio operator here on the forum, since a lot of what goes on inside a euphonium (nodes, antinodes, feedpoints, impedance, standing waves, etc) is very close to how antennas work.
    Have I already asked if you have amateur radio among your myriad skills? I'm also getting forgetful...
    Jim
    I'm a retired broadcast engineer of a half-century experience and currently an amateur extra W7TFO.

    Yep, a brass horn does share some physical commonalities with electrical wave resonance.

    Microwave radio waves travel through a hollow pipe called waveguide, from amplifier to antenna. Many of those waveguides are fine tuned by dimpling with a hammer...

    73DG

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    Not to hijack this thread but...
    Microwave radio waves travel through a hollow pipe called waveguide, from amplifier to antenna. Many of those waveguides are fine tuned by dimpling with a hammer...
    So true. I worked in radar for 30+ years. Air Force (10 cm radar, MPN-13) then FAA. When I was stationed in Sondrestrom Air Base, Greenland in 1968 to '69, we had a technical inspection of our radar. The inspector wrote up a short piece of waveguide because it had a small dent in it. This was between the magnetron going toward the antenna. The replacement piece of waveguide came in a few days later with a dent in almost the same place. Found out that there was a trained tech in the supply depot who's job it was to 'fine tune' these pieces of waveguides for lowest VSWR by using a ball peen hammer.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
    Posts
    1,003
    HIGHPITCH: Once I figure out how to get rid of the S9+10 noise on all bands, let's QSO! I'm also an Extra--N9EJR. I'm going to try to retrofit my Kenwood TS-690s for the new digital modes.

    Couple of other points:
    *I was kinda tickled by the statement about putting a piece of tape underneath the plates to avoid scratching...if the plates are so incredibly sensitive, won't a piece of tape compromise the installation? And for that matter, the "attachment device" (elastic band) that comes with the plates lends itself to inconsistent application--decidedly low-tech. Remember: people used to use golf tape pre-LeFreque.

    *The shape of a player's own resonant cavity may also play a role in any possible (lack of) response to the plates.

    *The plates MAY possibly produce some combination of amplification of some overtones and attenuation of others (so will a block of lead). That held true for the heavy-wall mouthpiece experiment I described above. In the case of the LeFreque, that combination of amplification/attenuation may be good, bad, or ugly, and may change if the attachment bands lose elasticity over time or if the player does not put the plates back on in the EXACT same location with the EXACT same tension in the low-tech installation bands.

    *Since I view this as a SOCIAL science experiment rather than a PHYSICAL science one, I never ignore the halo effect: Because Ignatz happens to possess ONE positive trait (Ignatz is a virtuoso bassoon player), we may tend to create a "halo" around Ignatz and assume Ignatz is equally virtuosic at the physics of bassoon playing as reflected in eponymous bocal design AND equally virtuosic at analyzing effectiveness of metal plates at possible nodal points and points of structural weakness in bassoons.

    *Rick: I frequently wish to apply the "impact engineering" you describe to my horns to correct their (not my) VSWN (Very Stinky Wrong Notes)
    Last edited by Snorlax; 01-29-2018 at 07:56 PM.
    Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
    Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
    bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
    Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
    Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
    Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
    www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

  10. Given it costs $300 for 2 pieces of metal and an elastic band to produce a change in sound that is completely subjective and unscientific, I tend to agree with Snorlax -- lefreQue Plates are a social experiment....a very expensive one at that.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •