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Thread: New to Euphonium Care

  1. #1

    New to Euphonium Care

    I play flute, so I know zip about how to care for any brass instrument. Of course, my two boys have chosen to play euphonium and trumpet this year so I feel like I need to learn something soon. In reading the euphonium forums over the last few days, I keep seeing references to bathtubs and oiling and things I have no experience with and must admit that I'm feeling a little intimidated! I don't yet know if we will rent or purchase, but am hoping to find something at a decent price to buy if I can.

    What are some good resources discussing the care and feeding of a euphonium? My younger son is nearly 10 and not the most careful child in the world so I feel like he's going to need some very specific instruction on how to keep the instrument nice in the long-run, especially if we find one inexpensive enough to purchase.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Texas, where every thing is bigger & BETTER
    Posts
    132
    Whatever you do, don't let your music store persuade you to buy a "instrument starter care kit".
    Valve oil:Blue Juice, Hetman, and Al Class are some of the more popular valve oils. I know Blue Juice offers a 8 oz. bottle that you can use to refill smaller bottles with. If both of your sons use Blue Juice, get the 8 oz.,use pliers to pull off the little dripping nozzle, and just refill.

    Slide grease: A jar of petroleum jelly/ Vaseline does a good job on slides. Vaseline and a drop of valve oil make a smooth kick slide on the trumpet.

    Any cleaning/polishing cloth will do just fine.

    a Bach 6 1/2 AL is a good mouthpiece to start with on euph. A Bach 7C is a good starter on trumpet.

    Get a little mouthpiece brush and clean his mouthpiece every once in a while.

    Most schools offer rentals for euphs. I would wait to purchase a euph because who knows if your son will stick to band? Also, your son would probably benefit from getting a more advanced horn once he hits high school.

    I wouldn't let your son bathe his horn until he gets a little older. Horns should be flushed at a local music store at least once a year. If you end up renting from the school, let the school take care of that. There are two methods to flush horns. There's a chemical bath that cleans the horn using mild chemicals. My preferred method is an ultra sonic cleaning because it prolongs the life of the horn longer because there aren't any chemicals that could be left over to rot out the interior of the horn (it happens), no chance of the horn being chemically burned (horns can be forgotten in the chemical bath, it happens),the more the horn is ultra-sonically clean;the cleaner it gets over the years,and ultra sonic cleanings are much healthier for the person who is flushing the horn.

    If possible, buy your musical accessories online. Music stores tend to hike up the prices on everything. I once paid $100 for a mouthpiece that I found online for $60.

    Schools don't usually offer trumpet rentals. I tried to pick up trumpet my freshman year of high school, but I wasn't to successful and now that I'm going into my senior year of high school and I need to pass it to someone who will have a better use for it than sitting on my shelf and looking pretty. I have a Bach trumpet, silver with gold accents, let me know if you are interested.
    Yamaha 642s Neo

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    El Paso, Texas
    Posts
    383
    Welcome to the wonderful world of brass! Asianeuph is right on point. If you have any questions about more specific details I'd be happy to send pictures to help explain this better. You can probably find a good used trumpet for not too much a couple hundred? The director should be a good help in the care department of each specific instrument, but here are some general care tips.

    I'm going to just go a straight forward as possible so I don't miss something. Some of this may be similar to caring for you flute physically.

    Oiling: it doesn't take much oil to keep the valves moving smoothly when they are clean, just a drop or two a day just to keep it moist. Using any of the above mentioned oils. Most local stores only sell the 2oz applicator bottles, the 8oz bottles will last you a while!

    Slide lube/grease: again, doesn't take much especially for trumpets. Just put a little of the grease on the slide and spread it around with your finger and then push the slide closed, and then wipe off the excess.

    Exterior metal cleaning/polishing: actual polishing using compound is not necessary on a regular basis, but a soft rag/cloth to wipe off waster marks from emptying the spit valves or something of the sort. Lacquer instruments can be polished from time to time with a lacquer cloth, and silver plated with a silver polish cloth. Excess polishing can wear down the finish faster than normal. Untreated cloth cleaning is fine, but cloths with compound will wear down the finish faster.

    Bathing: for lacquer instruments especially!!! DO NOT USE HOT WATER. It will take of the lacquer finish and expose the brass allowing it to oxidize(scientists don't crucify me if I used the wrong term for the metal type). Silver is more durable, but as a general rule, use luke warm water in the bath tub when washing with a little bit of dish soap(for cleaning purposes as well as softening hard water depending on your source, some areas have harder water than others and may require a little more soap). I put a unimportant towel at the bottom of the tub to protect the finish from being scratched by the tub or any dirt loosened during the cleaning process. Let the horn soak in the water for a few hours to soften any material inside the horn, and then clean the tubing with a snake brush. Any major cleaning can be done at a shop, but some are better than others... as you may already know. Dry the horn with a towel and then oil valves and grease slides again.

    Playing: encourage your children to rinse their mouth out with water before playing to help keep salts and sugars out of the horn as much as possible as they can corrode the metal on the inside of the horn. Foods can also gum up valves and make them slow.

    Storage: do not leave in excessively cold areas as this may cause the valves to seize up. excessive heat may cause the grease to liquefy and move into the valves as well as making the slides dry and hard to move.

    And I think that't it...... haha I know it may seem like a lot but I just wanted to make sure I covered everything, because I didn't know things a brass player should have know for a while so never hurts to cover everything.

    Again please feel free to ask more questions or ask for pictures.
    Adams E1 SS, Gold Brass Body .6mm DE Euph N103 Jcup, J9 shank
    Meinl Weston 2141 Eb Tuba PT 84

  4. #4
    Here are a couple additional pointers, although the advice above is already a very good start.

    In one of my music education classes in college the trumpet teacher recommended having beginning brass students do their daily oiling by dripping several drops of oil into the leadpipe (the thing the mouthpiece sticks into). Then put the mouthpiece in and blow hard and long a few times as you wiggle the valves. This 1) helps keep the leadpipe clean (it is a critical area, performance-wise), and 2) helps avoid a student dropping the valve or cross-threading the valve cap when doing this in a "community environment" like a bandroom full of people. Then maybe once a week, take each valve out, wipe it with a lint-free cloth, oil, and put it back in. That weekly step helps to get rid of any build-up on the valve.

    I am hesitant to have beginners or young students give the horn a bath. First, you are dealing with a wet, smooth brass instrument that suddenly weighs a whole lot more than you are used to. And as you tip it, the water moves around and the center of balance of the horn shifts immediately. I confess to denting my marching horn during my Coast Guard days when I was giving it a bath because of the sudden shift of weight. An annual cleaning by a music store is a good idea. In between times, once a week or once a month at most, use the Quick Horn Rinse. It is very easy to use and reduces some of the risks above. For one thing, water only fills the small tubes, which makes weight shifting less dramatic. And it requires no dis-assembly, other than removing the tuning slide.

    Let me add a word about your local music store. Yes, prices are usually higher there. But you can get good advice (depending, of course, on who you talk to) and also have a connection to a repair person, which could be very handy. You can also make a near-real-time purchase of valve oil or some other supply in the event you run out unexpectedly or lose something. We can't do everything online, and I like to help keep my local music store in business.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5
    Thanks for all of the information! The bathing thing is definitely new to me - can you imagine dumping a flute into a bathtub!? And no, I don't think I'll be having the kids do that themselves for a while yet.

    Thankfully I have my dad's old trumpet at a local music store being given the once over for my older child. It's a 60s or 70s era Conn (can't confirm exactly right now since it is not physically with me) so maybe not the best instrument ever from what I understand, but perfect for my beginner, and free to boot. I do really like our local store and will definitely be using them for our daily needs. It's more this initial purchase that I need more help with - nobody here seems to have used euphoniums in stock right now.

    On the euphonium, the kids will be in a homeschool band program so we have to work through a music store for rental. It's going to cost some $84 a month to rent one through any of the local stores, including the cost of an insurance plan to cover damages through the rental period so about $1000 for a 12 month period. At the end of the rental, we'd have the option to purchase at 20% off of whatever balance remained on the horn.

    Would you still recommend renting if I can manage to get my hands on a decent instrument for under $1000? I'm eyeballing ebay and craigslist but I don't know if that's too risky for someone not familiar with what makes a "good" used instrument. I don't know what to look for on the images to say that it is a good risk or not and unfortunately, the couple of instruments (Yamaha 321 and 321S) I'm eyeing aren't located close enough for the director to check out for me. I am also not sure how necessary the 4 valve is. The director recommended it if we could get one without much difference in price, but how necessary is it really for a beginner? Also, are there other brands beyond Yamaha and Eastman I should look at?

    Thank you again for any help or advice!

  6. #6
    Renting or owning; 3-valve of 4-valve to start. Not necessarily black & white choices.

    As far as renting, it involves more than just the math. You eliminate the risk of buying used. However, you can get opinions here to help you with that part. I usually recommend eBay because of their protections, but I know some have had good luck with Craigslist. Naturally you'd have to manage the personal safety factor there, but there are ways to do that.

    Some feel that a new horn is a big advantage because the student will be more proud and more likely to practice. Others say to go used, where the first dents are already in place, so the next set won't hurt as much! My son did a great job taking care of his trombone in the school band, but even then it took a couple of hits. His was bought new, and fortunately it was easy enough for my repair guy to get the dents out.

    Number of valves: I THINK it is still true that most students start with 3. The 4th valve adds the weight of another valve mechanism, but also adds a longer valve slide than any of the other 3, so it does weigh more. Some believe you should learn on 4 if possible so you are used to the fingerings. But I have found that students who were "raised" that way actually have a little less dexterity with the 3-valve fingerings that are useful in some cases as alternate choices. I favor 3-valve horns for beginners.

    As you progress, particularly in high school, the 4th valve may be necessary in a few band parts and some of the solo/contest literature. It allows for an extended low range, below the normal student-learning and early-band range. The 4th valve also fixes some intonation issues with only 3 valves. So, if you start with a 3-valve horn you will need/want to trade up to 4 after 2-3 years probably. In my case that did not happen until 10th grade, but I students may progress to that point a little earlier today. A 3-valve horn is a bit easier to learn (and carry) and it copies all the fingerings used for trumpet.

    If you rent, you might want to start with 4 valves. Otherwise, after the first year, a fast-learning student may feel the need for 4. However, if you get an equal credit at the end of the rental when trading a 3 for a 4, that would help.

    Food for thought!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    For a 10 y.o. beginning student I don't think a 4th valve is really necessary. Yes it's nice to have, but not required. I just spent a week working next to 3 middle school euphonium students in band camp who all had 4v instruments. When I suggested they use the 4th valve for better intonation, only one of them wanted to use their 4th valve. One girl said, "Oh, I never use the 4th valve, it's too hard for me".

    I would think that the Yamaha 3v horn would be good for a beginning 10 y.o. student. A Yamaha YEP201 in good shape can be purchased at less than $1k. It's lighter too at about 5 or 6 pounds I think.

    Also, as your son gets better and more interested, you can sell the 3v horn at nearly your purchase price... if he keeps it in good shape.

    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by RickF; 07-28-2015 at 10:51 AM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  8. #8
    My first instrument's case got kicked by another student, popped open and dumped my then week old instrument out onto the sidewalk. It survived, but over 20 years later, I can still find the scuff marks where the pieces hit the ground. I know exactly what can happen to an instrument with kids even older than my two!

    I am tempted to look at the 3+1 compensating model being sold by Mack Brass (MACK-EU1150S compensating). I realize resale won't be near what it would be for even a Yamaha 201, but it is a decent option if I'm going to end up spending nearly the same money anyway if it keeps him from having to upgrade in a couple of years? Or am I not thinking straight about this? Is the weight and extra air needed to play a compensating horn like that (as I understand it anyway) going to make things too hard for him in learning. I'm trying not to be the parent who spends ungodly amounts of money on something the kid loses interest in, but I admit it is hard not to get overly excited.

    You are all really, really helping me sort this out. I honestly feel like I'll know what we want to do by the end of the day at this rate.

  9. #9
    I would not buy a Mack (or any other compensating horn) for a beginner. They are heavier, require more air supply, easier to damage, and can actually be harder to play in tune for inexperienced players.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. #10
    Alrighty! Then the Yamaha 201 or a rental is it! I honestly cannot thank you enough for being so patient with me. I feel like I have enough information to have this in hand now!

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