Mouthpiece for a competitive marching baritone/euphonium line

[redsplus]

My high school band director wanted all of the baritone players to be on the same mouthpiece. With a bit of research, he's leaning towards the schilke 51D or anything similar. He wants the rich euphonium sound that many world class drum corps use. We're also on a somewhat tight budget, so mouthpieces that cost well over 100 us dollars each isnt for us because we would need to buy 10-15. Any recommendations?

[davewerden]

I don't think of the 51D as a "field" mouthpiece. Wouldn't you want a bit of edge for some things?

Do you have large shank or small shank horns? If large, then you might look at the Kelly Lexan 5G mouthpiece. $28 per. It gives a decent euphonium sound but still has enough bite to not get lost outside.

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmtr...mall/index.asp

Non-metal is also nice if you get into cold situations. But if you have small-shank horns, then your largest choice from Kelly is a 6-1/2AL. That might be too bright for the rich euphonium sound you mention.

[Msan1313]

What horns would you be using?

A 51D would be good for most horns, i used one until I grew out of the size into a bigger piece.

Also out of curiosity what school do you go to?

[bbocaner]

Putting all the players on the same mouthpiece only makes sense if all the players have the exact same embouchure and physiology. Otherwise, it's a dumb idea that's going to leave you with a less homogeneous sound and not more.

[euphish]

Some corps use Hammond versions of the 51D

[Msan1313]

Carolina Crown all use Hammond Design 12XL (i think) and they're easily the best horn line in competition right now. All the Blue Devils hornline use System Blue mouthpieces and are arguably pretty okay. But those are DCI hornlines that put in 12 hours a day on their equipment. I spent my whole tour on my 52E2 and now have trouble playing my DE, to the point that I need a bigger rim now. As a high schooler I'd be more worried about individual development. That being said I also know not to ever disobey the director on any instructions. If his hearts set on this being the solution, not listening to each other (hint hint) then let him lead.

I just got back from my short tour with The Guardians DBC, and we all used different pieces and different horns. We had only 4 or 5 true Euphonium players out of the 16 of us on the field. By the end of the tour we played as one section and that was just us having our tone established and everyone working to match. The main thing to listen for is sounding like your instrument, if everyone sound like bright sounding brass tubes instead of a baritone then yeah everyone will sound unison.. But that's not at all desired.

Just my 2 cents

[Jrpetty24]

I personally have used either a 51D(current for a large bore horn) or a 5G, both of which have a nice generic sound that works for this type of playing. I would say for the most part this will work fine for just about everyone. You will always have your exceptions but at this stage in playing, most people wont have a clear idea of what they need unless they are working with a private lessons teacher. For small shank horns the 6 1/2 AL will work fine as well especially if your parts don't have a lot of loud lows and just more middle range playing and around that area, but I feel as the 51D or 5G will give you a better overall versatility of sound. 52E2 works good for experienced players but will be hard to control for some especially without having a more developed, stronger embouchure.

I would also like to mention/second/third the use of clone mouthpieces. For marching band especially, even into concert band, the clones are fairly good copies of these well used pieces and work just as well, but are less expensive and may be the way to go especially if your director really wants to buy a set of mouthpieces for a section as a whole to play on.

[ghmerrill]

Putting all the players on the same mouthpiece only makes sense if all the players have the exact same embouchure and physiology. Otherwise, it's a dumb idea that's going to leave you with a less heterogeneous sound and not more.

Exactly my reaction to this. The first word that occurred to me was "dumb" (which I'm prepared to rephrase as "not well thought out"). But maybe we're wrong. It's possible that the band director has carefully selected his baritone players to have highly similar facial contours, lip shapes, structure of teeth, lung capacities, etc. And it's probably safe to assume that they're all playing on identical instruments. It's also a sign of his commitment to this that he's willing to throw some significant funding into it in order to achieve this uniformity. And after all, it's the result of "research".

On a positive note, it's nice to see a band director putting such a degree of concentration and effort into his baritone section.

[RickF]

Putting everyone on the same mpc is like telling everyone they need to wear the same size shirt, pants or hat. Makes no sense to me.

[Jrpetty24]

I would like to mention that most programs do this by default... Take a look in the schools mouthpiece box that gets handed out every year, all of them are either the same or really similar. Most often they are generally accepted mouthpieces that are know to work for most beginners. If they want to use something different have them take lessons and let their teacher decide that. Everyone needs to start somewhere and that's what these mouthpieces should be, nothing more. Most directors will not have the time nor facility to give each student lessons on their instrument each week and give every kid a different mouthpiece from the school.

TLDR: have your director buy a couple of mouthpieces for lending purposes for those who don't own their own. Encourage them to take private lessons regardless of whether they plan on making a career out of it and leave the majority of changing to private teachers. The directors should be able to diagnosis and help with major issues and help each person along their way making minor adjustments as necessary.

[redsplus]

thanks for your advice mr. werden, but i dont think plastic mouthpieces are necessary since i live in southern california, and cold temperatures are not very common. also, we use small shank horns. the reason he mentioned something with a deep cup such as the 51D is because many of the baritone players are trombone players playing baritones for the marching season, since we don't march trombones. they use 12c's which the band director really disapproves of.

[davewerden]

thanks for your advice mr. werden, but i dont think plastic mouthpieces are necessary since i live in southern california, and cold temperatures are not very common. also, we use small shank horns. the reason he mentioned something with a deep cup such as the 51D is because many of the baritone players are trombone players playing baritones for the marching season, since we don't march trombones. they use 12c's which the band director really disapproves of.

Actually, the main reason I suggested Kelly is that you can get a mouthpiece of respected quality for a very low price. A metal mouthpiece (brand name) is 2-3x as much. But obviously you have to be able to get the size you want, no matter how good the price/quality.

This thread has been an education for me; until now I had no idea that a 51D would have been a common choice for corps work.

[Msan1313]

I would say a Schilke 51D for small shank would work just fine. You're probably playing a Jupiter or Dynasty marching Baritone, (good luck if they're Dynasty) and the sound will be much more "brighter" than that of a full marching Euphonium, and easier on the arms too. The Schilke will make your sound much more deeper and rich, but if your band director is going for something more loud you might need something more shallow like a 6 1/2AL. Anything other than a 12C which most would agree is too small of a mouthpiece.

[Jrpetty24]

I'm with Msan, Dynasty baritones are.... interesting at best, my university has some and they are pretty bad horns when it comes intonation, response, and tone. I am lucky enough to have the only Yamaha marching horn in large shank and it is pretty good for the most part, only major complaint is C just above the bass clef( it is 10+ cents flat on average and has to be addressed with 1-3 valve combination)

[ghmerrill]

Actually, the main reason I suggested Kelly is that you can get a mouthpiece of respected quality for a very low price.

There are other advantages -- even in southern California: (1) In a marching situation, a plastic mouthpiece is quite a bit safer than a metal one in terms of it's potential impact on mouth and teeth -- much less damage will be done in various scenarios that I bet most of us are familiar with; and (2) If you drop a plastic mouthpiece it just bounces. It doesn't dent. In fact, it rarely chips. I've bounced them off a slate floor with no visible damage. I find them much more comfortable in either hot or cold weather, and in fact prefer a plastic rim in general -- which is why my DE euph mouthpiece has a lexan rim. They also aren't nearly as destructive to objects they might hit -- like your horn or someone else's.

I like the Kelly mouthpieces. I just wish they made a wider variety of them.