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Thread: Finger position - shift in philosophy?

  1. #11
    Sergei is amazing, isn't he? The video above was made when he was 12 or 13 I believe. He had been a piano phenom until a car accident left him with the spinal problem that made sitting for extended periods at piano impossible, so he switched to trumpet. Check out these 2 videos, from later years:

    From a live concert, it is a little hard to hear details in the technique, but his hand technique looks like I would like to do it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQeibzIihqE

    Here is the same song from a CD, where you can hear it better. Hold on to your hat!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jzI54rkmls

    He pretty much proved during his life so far that it's what inside that really counts!!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
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  2. #12
    Join Date
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    Oh yes, the Haydn Cello concerto. He is flawless! I've read about his accident and think that spinal injury is why he holds his horns pointed downwards so much. He's the best at circular breathing too, but that's another topic.

    Thanks for the link to the CD quality recording.

    (The bell on his flugel (Courtois 156R) looks like it came from a trombone. It's HUGE)
    Last edited by RickF; 06-08-2015 at 04:11 PM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
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    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    Deltona, Florida
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    Just another amatuer opinion to weigh in:
    In High School, I played a front action 4 valve Conn. Because of the thumb ring, I remember playing overlap style. (As I had smallish hands and short fingers). Also, doubling on Sousaphone, or other Tubas, made using overlap "easier" when dealing with bigger, heavier valves (and probably poor springs). But bad or ill, the habit became ingrained. By college, I had switched to my Besson Soveriegn, and my overlap style was called out by my instructor. I had tried to make the change, but found it gained me nothing but frustration, and when I was furiously in deep concentration, my hand automatically reverted to what had become instinct. He claimed I would never get the speed and dexterity I needed, but If I woodsheded out a part it would come. But here is the interesting part. As a member of the college band, and playing MARCHING Baritone, I felt it easier to switch to the fingerTIP style. Maybe it had something to do with rigid posture required for marching, or if it was just the different way of holding the horn. But I would do Tips on the field, and overlaps on everthing else. Even when I marched in DrumCorps, I played an over the shoulder Contra, where the reach was across my chest for the valves. (It was a converted upright, so in effect, top action valves) But here, marching posture and grip on the horn was everything, and I always used the tips.

    Nowadays, I think that arthritis might have as much to say about it as my old low brass prof. ever did! But, I always felt comfort was more of a concern over and above "tradition". If you can play the parts, then you can play the parts. Results speak louder than words. NOW if you CAN'T play the parts, let us look first to see why, and then examine some possible ways that might help to improve your technique.....

  4. Interesting. Relating to the tuba, Bill Bell would advocate a pretty flat hand with flattened fingers, (no real arch). Though in his orientation of the hand, the tips pretty much are directly over the piston button or on the spatula of the rotary mechanism. It took me many years to break old habits of random hand placement and I believe the hand responds quicker with the flatter approach. For me it seems easier to keep it relaxed and free of unnecessary tension. I found it is helpful if there is a thumb ring or tubing to position the hand far enough away from the valves. This has not been quite the issue on front action tubas, but the uprights usually do not offer a space bar far out enough to keep the hand at a comfortable distance from the valves. On my (upright) euph I have experimented by extending the hand bar outward somewhat with padding, This has help but I always thought the euph was not that ergonomic. Trying to keep tension out of the hand and arm is important.
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

  5. #15
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    Dec 2013
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    For me, like jskline5, marching baritone dictated my use of finger tips on the valves, but whenever I play front action tubas, it is entirely overlap. Mainly because of the larger distance between valves compared to euphonium as well as how far out they are from how I have my hand positioned, and it only makes sense for me to do that, but on euphonium with upright valves, I can only use tips because of my hand type and positioning.
    Adams E1 SS, Gold Brass Body .6mm DE Euph N103 Jcup, J9 shank
    Meinl Weston 2141 Eb Tuba PT 84

  6. I needed to leave for a bit, but am back with a second comment for what it is worth. I have seen many great players (Jacobs and Fletcher to mention 2) who often depart from standard hand position or "finger posture" by slightly raising the hand and using only the require fingers. I takes a little confidence of the music to pull it off, but it also gives the hand muscles a break from a constant and disciplined hand position. In a way it is a type of "play" for the hand, to break the intensity of always doing it "the proper way." I have seen others whose hands seem to dance over the buttons or even caress the music out of the instrument. We are artistic people, and there are apparently ways to physically stimulate an expressive mood in playing. And there are also those that we refer to as "mashers" who use considerable force in fingering. Very positive valve action. Very physical players in general.
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

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