FS: Ols Ambassador 4-Valve Euphonium - Straight Bell - Nice Condition!

[davewerden]

I think this horn is very well priced. It's the Olds Ambassador, which was not the top of the line. It is roughly like the King Cleveland line. But they are nice-playing solid horns with good sound and intonation. This one appears to be in very nice condition. For a 4-valve horn that is this clean, his buy-it-now price of $495 is quite good. There is also a bidding option (minimum $300). No case or mouthpiece. Seller has 100% positive feedback.

If you would like an American horn, check this out. I think it is a very good deal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-OLDS-AM...-/291486473090

[Garcky]

The seller has dropped the Buy it Now option. There's one bid at this writing for $300. I guess someone told the seller he or she could get more than the BIN price. We'll see.

[davewerden]

If it does go over 500, then it's a good example of why we need to move quickly sometimes!

[tampaworth]

The seller has dropped the Buy it Now option. There's one bid at this writing for $300. I guess someone told the seller he or she could get more than the BIN price. We'll see.

For "no reserve" auctions, on Ebay the ability to "Buy It Now" automatically disappears after the first bid

[euphdude]

I won it! I got it for $405....$90 cheaper than the buy it now price. For auctions where I'm willing to pay the starting price, but not sure about the buy it now price, I usually give it a shot to try to save a little more. This was within $15 of my max bid, so I almost didn't get it!

Now that I've won the auction, I need to get a case and a mouthpiece. I'm thinking of the new Wessex gig bag. As far as mouthpieces, I'm thinking of the Wick 4AY....Dave sure sounds great on his double bell on that one, and I play the Wick 4 size. What do y'all think of those selections for this horn?

I haven't played a horn like this since high school. I did play the school owned Ambassador that was a front bell 3 banger. My memory is that these horns are easier to play even if the tone isn't as good as the British style horns. We'll see soon enough!

[davewerden]

Congratulations on your win! The Wessex gig bag looks pretty good to me in the photos, although I have never touched one.

I think you should try a 4AY, but be aware the intonation could be more challenging with it. If that proves to be true, a Bach 5G might work better.

Have fun!

[euphdude]

Thanks Dave...pardon my ignorance, but what could be more challenging with the 4AY with horns like these? Too flat overall?

BTW Dave, thanks so much for flagging this on the site. I was checking ebay every once in a while, but I might have missed this one were it not for your post. Yet another reason why this is such an awesome forum!

[davewerden]

Thanks Dave...pardon my ignorance, but what could be more challenging with the 4AY with horns like these? Too flat overall?

Maybe too flat overall, but probably not. There is usually ample slide range to fix that. But too large a mp may exaggerate some intonation problems on a horn. I still think it's worth a try, though, especially if the 4 rim is what you are now used to.

[euphdude]

Hey Dave, what is your experience with the Wick 4BS on horns like these? I will try the 4AY first, as that is essentially the same as my 4AL, but in small shank. The Wick 4 rim is definitely what I'm used to. I've got a Doug Elliott 103/E/E3 to try too, but that is a 6.5AL cup with a Wick 4 rim. Possibly too bright?

[daruby]

My experience with American baritones is that a Wick 4 anything is pretty big. Pitch gets difficult in the high range and range itself becomes an issue. I play a Wick 4AL on my Besson Sovereign and either the 4AL or an Alliance E3 on my Sterling. I use a Wick 4AY when playing a Yamaha 321. But I use either a Bach 5G or 6 1/2AL on my Conn 24I. A 4BS does help since it has a shallower cup.

[euphdude]

Hey Folks, I received this one a couple of weeks ago, and have certainly had a few issues come my way. First off, the horn was sold without a case, and let's just say that the seller had never shipped an instrument bigger than a cornet before, and the condition it arrived in reflected that lack of experience. The bell was severely crumpled. I initially thought to send the horn back and ask for a refund, but the seller profusely apologized and agreed to pick up the tab in its entirety for repair. He immediately refunded part of the purchase price and I got the instrument back from repair shop on Monday. They rolled out the dents very nicely. This was not a pristine horn to begin with, and I must say that I would have to look very hard to find any evidence of damage. When I break out my brand new Wessex euphonium gig bag that I've not used yet, I found it doesn't fit! These American style front action euphs are apparently longer than the British style top action horns by at least 2-3 inches. I returned it to Wessex, and they suggested their compact tuba bag in exchange. I don't think length will be too much of a problem, but they acknowledged that it would probably require some amount of padding, etc. If this would be my primary horn, I don't think I would be satisfied with that, but for a horn I plan to use fairly sparingly, it is probably okay. What do you think?


So, how does it play? Very well in my opinion. This horn is just like the 3-valve bell front Ambassador that I played in middle/high school. Overall, definitely easier to play than the compensating horns. No, it doesn't have as broad of a sound and richness of tone and it still would not handle a solid fortissimo and up as well as the compensating instruments, but as an amateur how often would you really need that? As an amateur, only 2 obvious situations come to mind: First, brass bands will require a solid fortissimo quite often (but I'm playing baritone now, and that doesn't affect me now per se), and secondly, whenever I would play a euphonium solo in church. Other than those situations, why wouldn't I want to make my life easier?

Only one downside about this horn's playability and I'd like feedback on how to correct it....it plays FLAT...15-20 cents flat across most of the range except the 2nd line (bass clef) Bb partial which is even worse. And it seems that the mouthpiece I'm using (a G&W Carbonaria) has nothing to do with it, as I've tried a more traditional cup size, my Doug Elliott F-cup (like a 6.5 AL) in the horn...and with the exception of that Bb partial (which brought the pitch up to only 20 cents flat) it did not help the situation at all, and only made the tone more trombone like. Any other suggestions? A fairly radical one to try would be to have the tuning slide cut, but I'd like to avoid that if there is anything else worth trying. Aside from the flat pitch, the horn's intonation seems quite good.

[davewerden]

As far as a case, Altieri can provide one that will fit. They do custom sizes, but I suspect that have a "template" in place for a horn like this one.

Despite the cup size of the DE mouthpiece, how is the extension from the horn? If it sticks out to far it will wreak havoc with pitch. If possible try to borrow a standard, small-shank Bach mouthpiece like a 7C or 6-1/2AL (no larger). ALSO, be really sure you have the horn warmed up. It can actually be tricky in the Summer when you are in air conditioning.

While the horn looks very nice, it might be good to take a look inside all the slides and ports you can see to tell if it is clean inside. If not, then a thorough cleaning would be a great next step!

Low Bb can be flat on the American horns sometimes, so that in itself is not necessarily unusual.

[RickF]

Sorry to hear about the damage to the horn, but glad to hear the seller stepped up to pay for repair. Don't know what to suggest about fixing a flat across-the-board horn except for shortening slides as you mentioned already, but I know there are gig bags for American euphoniums... either for bent bell or upright bell. I know that these horns are longer at about 31" instead of 27". I think Alteri makes a bag for these but not sure.

[euphdude]

Despite the cup size of the DE mouthpiece, how is the extension from the horn? If it sticks out to far it will wreak havoc with pitch. If possible try to borrow a standard, small-shank Bach mouthpiece like a 7C or 6-1/2AL (no larger). ALSO, be really sure you have the horn warmed up. It can actually be tricky in the Summer when you are in air conditioning.

While the horn looks very nice, it might be good to take a look inside all the slides and ports you can see to tell if it is clean inside. If not, then a thorough cleaning would be a great next step!

Low Bb can be flat on the American horns sometimes, so that in itself is not necessarily unusual.

Thanks much Dave. Yes, the 2 small shank mouthpieces I tried (the Doug Elliott and the G&W) did stick out further in the receiver compared to my bigger horns (much more so than my English baritones also). I have a Kelly 6.5 AL that I'll try as well.

Did I read somewhere that some repairmen (maybe even Doug Elliott) have reamed out receivers to have better seating of the mouthpiece?

And I was playing in my basement storage room which is the coldest room in our house when the AC is on. So you might be on to something there. My bigger horns require me to push in just a touch when I play there.

Glad to hear that the flatness of that low Bb is not unusual with American horns. The flatness appears to be turned up further in that partial.

I haven't given the horn a bath, but the pistons and tuning slides appear to be clean internally. A bath probably wouldn't hurt...who knows what may have gotten lodged in there?

[tampaworth]

it plays FLAT

Great idea to leak test the horn. First, a visual on the obvious like the spit valves (alignment, corks, etc). Then a quick search through the forum archives where Gary has described an excellent and easy method for leak testing the whole deal!