Question about new to me horn.

[CEBunker]

Kanstul 975 used vs. Willson 2900S used:

Holy cow, I should not have played the Willson!

The Kanstul is a bright, strong sounding horn. The Willson is a more mellow, maybe richer tone horn.

The Kanstul makes me work hard to play the low and high notes. Until today I thought that was just me needing to work on my chops and technique. The Willson let me play those notes with no difficulty! It made me realize that the Arban book isn't crazy...those notes are meant to be played!!!

To be fare to the Kanstul, once I realized I could play those notes, I was able to play them a little better on the Kanstul (some psychology involved).

Intonation wise, I don't think they compare. I only did it by ear, but the Willson sounded so much more in tune than the Kanstul, especially in the higher range.

This was done by an amateur using amateur metrics, so don't sue me. Also, the Kanstul has a large shank mp (4AL), while the Willson has the euro shake (three mps provided). I tried all three with the Willson with the same basic results. I don't think getting a new mp for the Kanstul will make it a Willson, although I am open to suggestions.

In short, I really like my Kanstul, but I am now looking for a Willson, or maybe a Besson. As I have read in Dave's posts, the value of a pro horn to an amateur is in the joy of playing. I certainly agree.

Regards

[Pat]

So did you buy the Willson?

[CEBunker]

So did you buy the Willson?

Well, I'm a little bit disappointed in my local music store now. It turns out they have it on consignment and its listed on ebay. It won't be available unless it doesn't sell; currently, the reserve has not been met.

They did not tell me about that when they called me in. They also gave me a weird vibe while discussing the horn. I will say that I think it needs some work; the second valve sticks and the caps are all gunked up. The whole horn probably needs a serious cleaning. The finish is good, but there are lots of scratches, and someone appears to have taken a pair of pliers to the valve casing at the base. Still, really nice to play.

[Msan1313]

Just out of curiosity, is it this horn?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willson-4-Va...item2ee0df208c

[CEBunker]

Yes, thats the one.

[adrian_quince]

What might not be normal is the amount of water (or any water) comming from the bottom of the valves. I don't remember valves leaking. Of course there is lots of water to drain from the slides, so its not as if that is where its all going, I just don't remember water being there. [...] Just wondering if I have a valve problem.

Hi Chris,

Welcome back to playing euphonium! I've got the same horn and I get a fair amount of water out of the bottom of the valves. I don't think you have a problem at all.

Here's what I use to handle it: http://www.amazon.com/Jo-Ral-Gutters...tter+euphonium Simple, cheap, and works great.

[adrian_quince]

Hi Chris,

On the mouthpiece issue, the Kanstul I own shipped to me with a Wick 4AL. I found it to be a pretty poor match for the horn. The Kanstul has a smaller bore than a lot of contemporary compensating horns and it seemed to me that the 4AL was giving the horn too much air. The Steve Mead Ultra has been a much better fit with the horn for me at least. I'm thinking a Schilke 51D or a BB1 (from Deg, I think?) might be worth a shot as well.

Nothing against the 4AL either. When I play that with a Besson it absolutely sings.

[adrian_quince]

I was looking to see if they had improved since then.

I've had one since early March that I bought new. It had been at The Horn Guys for a few months (tried it the August before), but I believe it's still a newer revision of the instrument. I'm still in the break-in period on the horn, but so far it's been excellent.

Regarding Dave's points in the review:

"The smaller bore makes it a little too easy to overpower the horn." This is still true, but with a lighter touch it's still possible to generate a lot of volume without causing the sound to break up. I found the 4AL particularly bad in this regard. The SM4U was better, but still can overpower the horn.

"This horn has metal valve guides." They've switched to plastic.

"Very good response over most of the range! It is really nice in the low register when using 4th valve plus others." This is still the case, and one of my favorite things about the instrument. It gives me a lot of options with 4th valve fingerings without having to worry about the sound quality changing.

"The horn is too sharp, at least with the Denis Wick 4AL mouthpiece I use. It might be better with a Schilke or Elliott mouthpiece, which are made a little longer, but I have never had to pull the slides this far on any other horn. In any case, many players use the Wick mouthpieces or the Steven Mead versions of them. I did my tuning tests in a comfortable room, and the slides would have to be pulled further on a hot stage or in a hot room. I had to pull the tuning slide out 1-1/4", 1st valve 3/4", and the 4th valve 1-3/8" for the best results. That is probably about twice what would be expected." This has definitely been improved. My valve pulls are all less than 3/4".

"Other intonation tendencies are pretty good. The one troublesome spot was the 3rd partial F, F#, and G (concert), which were quite sharp. This is the direction most modern compensating euphoniums lean, but they are usually not as sharp as this (about 20 cents for the F)." This has been improved as well. On the tuner tests, the 3rd partial is only a few cents sharp for me. In real life, it tunes just fine for me.

"The high G and A-flat (concert) were very uncentered and "loose-feeling." All horns have some less-than-perfect notes, but these two feel worse than usual. (It's possible it would improve when the horn is broken in.)" These notes are fine for me when using 1 and 1-2 for the fingerings, respectively. If I try to use 0 and 2 for them, they don't slot well at all.

"Add nipples to the bottom valve caps. Some people like to use water catchers that need these fitting for attachment." They still need to do this.

[Rodgeman]

Adrian - thank you for the update.

[CEBunker]

Hi Chris,

On the mouthpiece issue, the Kanstul I own shipped to me with a Wick 4AL. I found it to be a pretty poor match for the horn. The Kanstul has a smaller bore than a lot of contemporary compensating horns and it seemed to me that the 4AL was giving the horn too much air. The Steve Mead Ultra has been a much better fit with the horn for me at least. I'm thinking a Schilke 51D or a BB1 (from Deg, I think?) might be worth a shot as well.

Nothing against the 4AL either. When I play that with a Besson it absolutely sings.

Thank you Adrian. That is very helpful information. I bought the 4AL based on the glowing reviews it gets. I will order one of the alternates that you have mentioned today! If I can get the horn to be more responsive for me at the high end, then I will have all I need...for now.