Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Doubling/Triple on Instruments

  1. Auxiliary Instruments/Learning Instruments

    I am a 15 year old Euphonium player with a slight problem-I love orchestral music way too much. The Euphonium is a beautiful instrument (I personally believe that it would work fabulously as an orchestral instrument. If I ever get some significant amount of money in my life I'm thinking about commissioning orchestral music with Euphonium in it) but there are no parts written for it in full orchestra (with a few major exceptions). My eventual solution was to begin to learn trumpet (I could never get used to a trombone slide, or should I bite the bullet?). But unfortunately I'm preparing audition pieces for GHP (governors honors program) and school is getting crazy; I've had no time to practice on the instrument. Anyways, my first question is this: I may not be be able to have time to practice the instrument until after college. If I put in the time necessary to get proficient on the trumpet, will it matter that I'm learning it at 22? Even at that age, could I still become proficient enough ,after years of practice, to join a major symphony orchestra ,but at an older age than normal? In addition, even if I practice on the trumpet a lot, would I be unable to overcome the barriers of high range, or would it be something I would need to practice disproportionally (compared to the average trumpet player)? How would this effect my skills on the Euphonium?

    In addition, I also want to become more diversified as a Euphonium-family instrumentalist. Would learning the Alto/Tenor Horn and Baritone Horn be useful skills for a Euphonium player in America? If I did learn those instruments, how significant is the change in playing style (Baritone Horn and Alto Horn) and the change in mouthpiece (Alto Horn)? I know Bass Trumpet/Alto Trumpet is used in some orchestral works (Rite of Spring), how significant is the change in mouthpiece for these instruments (and would they be useful to learn)? And final question, if I did become proficient at Alto Horn at some point, would learning to play French Horn be easier than without that background, or are the mouthpieces too different? In any case, I'm happy to be a part of this great community and I can't wait to learn from those in it.
    Last edited by Daniel Agramonte; 01-25-2015 at 02:35 AM.

  2. From my perspective, learning a new instrument is always beneficial if you go about it the right way. I've played trumpet, trombone, French horn, euphonium, baritone, and tuba for a bit each, and I think playing each one has given me a new idea on how to approach the others. However, I am nowhere near the level of a professional. My main instrument currently is tuba as that is the need of my college. I love it and this is my first year. For mouthpiece, if you can find a comfortable rim on each instrument you should be fine. If possible, a modular set up through someone like Mr. Elliot would be perfect for groups of instruments like baritone, euphonium, bass trumpet as you could stick to a single size rim. Otherwise, practice is key. Regarding alto horn and French horn, I have no idea. Sorry. I think you've set some high goals for yourself, but if you go for it, you'll come out better than before whether you make it in a professional setting or not. Personally, I learned trombone for playing in my high school orchestra and jazz band but if
    I could do it again, I would start on tuba earlier.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,040
    I'll start out by largely ignoring what you've said after your first couple of sentences. It's all over the place, very enthusiastic, I understand exactly where you're coming from with it, but it's a diversion from your original question and "problem statement" which is "I like orchestral music, but I can't use a euphonium for that. At this point in my life, what should I do about it?" My answer to that is simple: Get a large bore tenor trombone with an F attachment, like this: http://www.mackbrass.com/MACK-TB810L.php. And have a good time.

    You WILL get used to the slide, and you'll learn a lot in doing that (both about the music you're playing and about tuning and intonation). The instrument will be easy for you to move to quickly because it isolates the differences into, basically, just the slide rather than valves. Reading the music will be the same (I assume you read bass clef, but if not, that's easy to fix ), the mouthpiece will be pretty much the same (in fact, it can be identical), the range is pretty much the same, etc. And it's a VERY versatile instrument. You can start off immediately by playing 2nd trombone parts (yuck) or 3rd (yea!). It puts you right into the orchestra (or dance band, or dixieland band, or jazz band) immediately. Just start doing scales and arpeggios, and in a couple of weeks you'll be fine.

    I'm facing the same kind of decision now myself (which you'll see in a different thread I posted just yesterday). I used to have a big Holton TR181 double-valve bass trombone, but sold it some years ago because I wasn't using it much and thought I'd be better off concentrating on valved instruments rather than splitting time with the slide and the valves. But I love a trombone and now I think I need to get another. It will be either another bass (probably Chinese, for cost purposes, but some of them are excellent), or the Mack Brass horn I mentioned above. Just need to sort out my own real goals and what is likely to be best for me.

    The rest of your posting (if you look at it) expresses a lot of concerns that will simply disappear if you go the trombone route. Think about that.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  4. #4
    I, too, vote for the trombone route. Granted learning the slide is a challenge, but I taught myself in high school with no serious problems. Playing a trombone may help focus your intonation. And the biggest advantage is that you are building your euphonium chops and trombone chops more-or-less simultaneously. Granted there is a different in air flow with trombone and euphonium, but that difference is arguably much, much less than the differences in air flow with euphonium and trumpet.

    You could also learn tuba. It's actually quite compatible with euphonium.

    Learning either of those low-brass orchestral instruments, and playing within an orchestra, may help you understand the textures of the low brass in orchestra.

    You might start trying to gather the existing parts for euphonium within orchestra. As your skills mature you can try to network with orchestra folks and get on their list of players for euphonium. Currently there are 86 such pieces in the Euphonium Music Guide, and I suspect the actual number is greater. If you page through the listings you'll see that the living composer Aho has done many symphonies that have euphonium parts, some of which are quite challenging!

    http://www.dwerden.com/emg/musicsear...tra&doSearch=1
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,040
    And here's some additional insight from someone with substantial authority and experience from the trombone side: http://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq.../doubling.html.

    (You should probably put off any thought of doubling on serpent for some time.)
    Last edited by ghmerrill; 01-25-2015 at 09:41 AM.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. Hey everybody thank you for your helpful commentary! I think I see now that it is impractical to learn trumpet, or at least it's more practical for me to learn trombone. As for tuba, I don't know of I'm very well suited for the instrument, I tried to play a friends tuba and I couldn't even get a sound out of the instrument. But nevertheless it would definitely be fun to experiment with the instrument in later years. What about the other instruments I mentioned, is there any use in learning those?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Agramonte View Post
    What about the other instruments I mentioned, is there any use in learning those?
    In my opinion, no, unless you have a desire to play one of them in an ensemble or solo.

    Interesting that you had trouble getting a sound on tuba. It IS different for sure, but I never had trouble getting at least some sound, even when I first picked one up (techniques class in college). To tell you the truth, when I first got my Eb tuba for practice only, and my primary goal was to help build my breath support. It was later that I developed the goal of playing solo/ensemble. And later still I discovered that playing tuba actually seems to help my euphonium chops, although I can't be sure why that is.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,040
    Your life is likely to be very long. There is plenty of time for learning ALL those instruments, if you wish. But FIRST, learn one or two instruments REALLY well. I started on saxophone in 6th grade (well-trained in school and by private instructors), picked up flute as a double in college (self-taught), stopped playing for many years, and then picked up tuba and bass trombone (self-taught) in my mid-40s. There is time. Focus first, and branch out later. Become a muscian, and not just somebody who can get sounds out of a bunch of different instruments.

    Concerning the tuba, you should easily be able to play one. In fact, given that you play euphonium, you should be able to sit down with a BBb tuba and be able to play it passably in band in probably a week. The fingerings are pretty much the same (some minor differences in different octaves because of where the partials lie since the instruments are an octave apart). Of course, we don't know what kind of "tuba" you tried or what mouthpiece you used. If it was a sousaphone or you used a mouthpiece that is too large (many players do, and are often provided with poor mouthpiece choices by instructors who aren't tuba players), that might explain it. Or if the tuba is leaky or otherwise in wonky shape, that might explain it. But you definitely should be able to play it in the euphonium range without difficulty.

    On the other hand, I don't really consider the tuba to be a true "orchestral instrument". So I don't think that right now it would provide you with what you're looking for.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  9. #9
    I started trombone when I was 15 and ended up majoring in trombone when I was in college. It's a major undertaking to get good at it. Not only do you need to figure out the slide technique, but the whole air and articulation thing is very different. I do feel like playing multiple instruments is like cross-training, and it will help your euphonium playing, but if your goal is an orchestra job you need to really set aside the euphonium for a while and concentrate on trombone.

    Tuba is not a bad suggestion either.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    263
    I agree with Mr Bocaner, doubling is one thing, but if you want to become serious into orchestral music you need to focus on trombone. Playing trombone versus playing euphonium needs the same mouthpiece, but the airstream, articulations, and airflow will change. It took me weeks just to become half decent at legato tounging, and after 6 or so months of playing trombone as a double instrument, I still haven't locked in all the positions. So if you're serious about learning it, pick it up and focus on it everyday.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •