Community Band Questions

[Eupher6]

I've played in probably 6-8 community bands over the past 23 years I've been back to the States and 4 British-style brass bands, not to mention the various orchestras, jazz bands, and chamber groups here and there. None of them, save possibly one brass band and one community band in the Chicago area rehearsed in the manner the OP mentioned. Usually, it's much more relaxed and laid-back.

Personally, I opt for the more "challenging" groups as I find it makes me a better player. But there are plenty of folks who like the pace somewhat slower, and that's fine too.

[davewerden]

To get ready you might want to get this book of excerpts. It has a lot of the most common literature, and even when you're playing different pieces the practice in these styles will help:

http://www.dwerden.com/eu-books-ee.cfm

[rudibred]

Thank you everyone for the really quick responses and the guidance. I've reached out to the conductor of the Reno Wind Symphony and Municipal Band (same person) and will check out their upcoming concerts. I also love the idea of sitting in on and/or watching rehearsals, I'll see if they'll let me.

Until then, I'll keep hitting the Arban exercises (and another post suggested the Remington routines, which have been very helpful in getting back the range, tone, strength).

I'm excited to be playing again and this forum has proven to be an awesome resource for doing so!

Rudi

Edit (clicked post before seeing the next two replies):
Eupher6, I'm definitely looking for the most challenging group that will have me. In the past, playing the difficult pieces and having to practice for hours to get it right was much more rewarding.
David, Thank you for sending that. I'll take a look.

[jkircoff]

Time, patience, and consistency are the three key elements you must abide by if you wish to elevate your playing. Breathing, buzzing, long tones, flexibility, upper and lower range work, overtones, and tonguing should all be part of your regular routine in order to develop the chops, range, and sound desired. Good luck!

[ghmerrill]

Maybe you should also give some thought to what you might find intolerable in a band (though this may change as you play more). There are primarily three things that will drive me away (and have driven me away) from a community band:

1. A bad conductor. I don't think I have excessively high standards here, but I find that I just can't tolerate a conductor who is poor at conducting (constantly difficult to follow, can't read the score, seems to lack a reasonable sense of musicality, etc.), or who is willing to tolerate what is obviously sloppy and inadequate performance -- and especially when this includes a willingness to perform a piece in public that is still being poorly played by the band. Lack of perfection is a way of life in (certainly most) community bands, but tolerating absolutely embarrassing crap should not, in itself, be tolerated. I also quickly lose patience with a conductor who does not prepare for rehearsal himself/herself, but expects the band to have spent the time preparing. Or a conductor who can never seem to tell the band what pieces are likely to be rehearsed at a given practice session. To me, these are just basic requirements for a conductor, and I haven't often seen them violated. But when they are, I don't stick around.
2. Lack of concern for intonation. There's not much more to say about this. If the band doesn't care about being in tune, and the conductor won't work at ensuring that the band plays in tune, then I'm out. Again, I'm not talking perfection here. But there's a point beyond what you're doing isn't music.
3. (Back to the conductor -- but also somewhat membership dependent ...) I find that I can't tolerate an approach to "rehearsal" the consists simply of "run throughs" of pieces, one after another. I mean, no stopping to correct a problem, no focus on getting a section to play a passage correctly or in tune, no attempt at clear instructions on how a section is to be played, no concern about dynamics, etc. The result is sound, but not music. I've had the experience of bands in which a number of the members voice the complaint that they get bored with and "don't see the sense of" stopping and spending five minutes on getting the horns to do an entrance correctly, or getting the trumpet section to play a fanfare with the proper rhythm and in tune, or getting the percussion section to get a difficult passage correct. Sure, people should practice at home. But you can't expect a collection of amateurs who practice a few times a week (at most), who have one group rehearsal per week, and who don't have sectional rehearsals, to come to the band rehearsal with all their technical challenges satisfied and prepared just to focus on the performance of the entire ensemble. It's not realistic. And I really love those people who object to spending time on ensuring that some other section gets attention for a few minutes in order for the performance not to sound like a train wreck.

Anyhow ... those are the major things that can make me sorry I decided to join a community band (and I've had it happen only a couple of times), but if you have similar things, it's best to figure it out before you really join the band. I guess a big part of my point is that there's a lot of variation in community bands, and there are things that may need to be tolerated in order to participate in any given band. But there are limits to this, and it's good to think of what your limits are when evaluating an organization to join. This is where a "sit in on one or two rehearsals and then both the band and you will make up your minds" approach can be valuable. Also, a lot of organizations have web sites (or social media pages) where they post audio or video recordings of their concerts -- and sometimes a lot can be gleaned from these, as a kind of "pre-filter" to looking more closely at the group.

[enhite]

"There are primarily three things that will drive me away (and have driven me away) from a community band:........."

Gary, I agree with all of the above and would add another: A conductor who insists on taking a piece faster than the band can comfortably play it. Just because Sousa recorded "Stars and Stripes" at a breakneck speed, doesn't mean everyone can or should play it at that speed. Sousa had professional musicians. Few of us in community bands are that skilled. I would always prefer to listen to a musician or group of musicians playing precisely and musically, even if a bit below professional tempo.

[iiipopes]

There are primarily three things that will drive me away (and have driven me away) from a community band....

Gary, your musicianship is impeccable. Your patience with others leaves a lot to be desired. Most players never achieve the performance accolades you have. For most people who pick up a horn, a community band is their only outlet to express their music. It is in these ensembles that your musical expertise is most needed gently help them along. I conduct a group right now where I have a player who is exhibiting the same, er, let's just say opinions, as you have expressed, to the detriment of our brethren, since we need him as a good trombone player.

I strongly suggest you reflect on this quote from the Kipling poem, IF:

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,

You have walked with the kings of band musicality. Have you lost touch from whence you came as a beginning player and had trouble remembering the fingering for a Bb scale?
You need work on your ability to talk with the crowds, the commoners who play their horns for the sheer joy and enjoyment, without condescending to them.

[davewerden]

The pace of that band you describe is certainly unusual for a community band, unless most of the players have a pretty deep background. Personally I would love it! Sight reading is fun and it is a skill you can practice for.

Once I retire from my day job I expect I'll find a band to play in. I could see myself not being happy if the performances were really rough, but I know I would have to adjust my standards down from the Coast Guard Band's level. There, playing a piece in a concert with only the briefest of run-though ahead of time was not too unusual, but the band could handle it very well.

So you'd have to judge by outcomes AND by audience reactions. You might even stroll around the audience and solicit (or overhear) opinions. If you thought it was bad but the audience really enjoyed it, you need to understand that disconnect.

In any case, you're probably hoping for an experience you'll enjoy. If the band's outcomes or preparation pace are not enjoyable for you, there are at least 3 options:

1) Adapt, adjust, learn to love it...or at least to be OK with it.

2) Consider the gig temporary until you can get placed in a better group (assuming your area is large enough that there is a better group). Then make the most of your current gig to improve your skills in all ways.

3) Leave.

You could also start a small group, like a quartet or quintet, with the better players from the band. It's possible to get gigs with such an ensemble. Lots of options for you!

[DaveBj]

Gary, I agree with all of the above and would add another: A conductor who insists on taking a piece faster than the band can comfortably play it. Just because Sousa recorded "Stars and Stripes" at a breakneck speed, doesn't mean everyone can or should play it at that speed. Sousa had professional musicians. Few of us in community bands are that skilled. I would always prefer to listen to a musician or group of musicians playing precisely and musically, even if a bit below professional tempo.

I had to grin at this one. In our community band I have taken it on myself to find YouTube performances of the tunes that we are doing for any given concert, and then to pass those links on to the rest of the band members, so they can hear the piece [hopefully] played well. One of the pieces for our upcoming concert is "Them Basses", and the performance that I found was by the Eastman Wind Ensemble, which, as some of you may already know, is famous for playing circus marches at warp speed. I "triple-dog-dared" our director to match the EWE's tempo

[jkircoff]

I had a conversation with one of my conductors about how "ignorance is bliss" when it comes to musical expectations. The more your ear is trained, the harder it is for a group to sound good.

[RickF]

I had a conversation with one of my conductors about how "ignorance is bliss" when it comes to musical expectations. The more your ear is trained, the harder it is for a group to sound good.

Hmm? Not sure I understand what you mean here. We need to listen and play in tune.

[John Morgan]

Hmm? Not sure I understand what you mean here. We need to listen and play in tune.

I am thinking jkircoff means that as you become more proficient, experienced and nuanced as a musician (or a listener), you will be more critical of groups. You will learn what is good, what is in tune, what is musical (in many ways). So, the group that may have sounded "pretty okay" to your previously untrained ear (lacking musical maturity and skill), may now sound not so good.

This is an interesting thread. I started to write something, but I needed much more time to do it right and say what is on my mind. But, for now, I, like Dave, prefer to play in groups with excellent musicians playing enjoyable, varied and highly challenging music. With a no nonsense conductor. But I also play in groups that are at the far opposite end of the spectrum (very amateur with a few experienced folks). I can always learn and improve, no matter what the music or skill level of the group, and I immensely enjoy watching others get so much enjoyment from making music (including my amateur percussionist wife, Linda), and I also like trying to assist, encourage, stimulate, etc. others along the way. So, I can be happy in the very best and very "not so best" groups. And it is surprising what type of comments you get from the audience from my "not so great" group. They love it. Probably not a very musically sophisticated audience, but who can doubt their sincerity when they are all smiles, taping their feet, and thoroughly enjoying themselves. I should expand on all this, but I would need a lot of space.

[RickF]

I get it... ignorance is bliss from an audience perspective not from those performing.

Thanks John.

[bpwilliams]

I use community bands to hone my ensemble skills. It is very challenging to play in a band with multiple pitch centers and tempos. It is a John Cage dream.

[iiipopes]

Some years ago I was playing in a community band on tuba. The section was frustrating to me. One person had no clue as to pitch. Another had no clue as to timing, and the necessity of locking with the bass drum to set the foundation. Another had no clue as to why ensemble rehearsals were even necessary except for dress rehearsal.

As my frustration mounted, I was blessed with this insight: as I posted above, I have had the great privilege to perform with many different ensembles from garage band to national television broadcast, on more than one instrument. I remember 5th grade band and the frustration of learning my preparatory exercises. The realization that kicked me in the side of the head: none of the folks mentioned will ever get to perform outside of the greater municipal area than where we all live. Why should I deny them their moment in the sun?

In response to Dave's post, I do not lower my musicianship standards. But I do not artificially impose them on others. If there is a problem, I play softer so the director can hear the situation and resolve it. That's not my job as a player. With the requirements of the day job, I don't necessarily have the luxury to choose which community ensemble I sit in with. So I live with it. I am not sure I would call it a "John Cage dream," because that can also be misconstrued as a condescention of the other players.

Here is what I do with the ensemble I direct: I always compliment their best efforts, and I give examples. For example, at our last rehearsal, one of the pieces we play has a point in the middle of the piece where the melody is played in octaves by - get this - trombones and clarinets! That's just never going to work well and blend well due to the inconsistent physical attributes and intonation characteristics of the different instruments. So I took a few minutes, explained the balance problem, asked them to listen across the ensemble, and reassured them that it was not their ability, but the nature of the instrument that the clarinet throat tones would tend to be sharp and thin while the trombones easing off might go flat with breath support issues, and please listen. By the end of that five minutes of rehearsing that particular sixteen bars, they were sounding quite good together.

I truly believe that many of the intonation issues that players complain about in community bands are as a result of their former school band directors not explaining why intonation issues exist, more than any fundamental deficiency of the player. I was lucky. My school band director was Navy trained. So he would explain why the intonation issues existed, and what to do to fix it. The most obvious example is when trumpets have fanfares in octaves, and the D at the bottom of the treble clef tends to be sharp with the 1+3 valve combination, which needs a slide adjustment down, combined with 4th line D 1st valve, which being a 5th harmonic, tends to be flat, needing a lipping adjustment up. So he instructed the 2nd part to kick out a slide and the 1st part to lip up or use alternate fingerings. Many school band directors I know don't instruct on that sort of thing, and wonder why they only get II ratings at state contest instead of I ratings.