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Thread: Switched to Blue Juice valve oil

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    West Palm Beach, FL
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    Switched to Blue Juice valve oil

    After about five years of using Yamaha Synthetic (light) valve oil, I've now switched to "Blue Juice". The reason I switched is I'm trying to figure out what is causing a build up of a white or yellow gunk like substance that shows up in the 1st and 2nd valve slides. This is the second time I've noticed that a note fingered 1-2 has sounded stuffy compared to just 3rd valve fingering. When I looked into my slides I found a build up of white or yellow gunk in 1 and 2. After cleaning out the slides the tone of 1-2 fingered notes was the same as 3 again. (Note: Just three months ago I had my horn ultrasonically cleaned.) This buildup happened once before and I thought it was the slide grease I was using so I switched. The yellow gunk is similar to what many have reported seeing when using Hetman's valve oil -- but on their valves. I can see some white or yellow gunk on the valve ports using Yamaha Synthetic, but it was never as bad as with Hetman's.



    We'll see how this goes. So far Blue Juice is working fine. It's cheaper too, so that's a good thing.
    Last edited by RickF; 07-04-2017 at 03:49 PM. Reason: edited to add image
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    El Paso, Texas
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    Interestingly enough I have the same issue with my hetman oil, I noticed some build up in my slides, and thought the same as you, just residual slide grease, but I later found the sources was in the bottom of my valve casings, particularly 1 and 2, minor build up in 3 and little to none in 4. I also have a problem with my slide grease liquifying when I put more oil on my valves, and since I play everyday most of the day this process is quite annoying, it makes my slides nearly impossible to move and sometimes even removing the slide completely is a task. I just used all of my blue juice, but I now have about 8oz of Ultra Pure oil that I may give a shot since my hetmans creates this nasty buildup in my Adams, but oldly enough it does not build up in my Besson
    Adams E1 SS, Gold Brass Body .6mm DE Euph N103 Jcup, J9 shank
    Meinl Weston 2141 Eb Tuba PT 84

  3. #3
    For my '75 Besson, I started out using the yamaha light synthetic. I too, found the white/yellowish gunk starting to appear. I use their slide oil on my trombones without any reservation and have had NO issues. I don't have an answer for it either. But I've used blue juice for many years on the Hirsbrunner, and I've started to use that in the past week on the Besson. Seems to work just fine.

    And I've still got clangy metal guides on this horn.....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,853
    Update...

    After about 10 days of using Blue Juice I'd like to report that it's working great! I pulled out my valves and started to wipe them down (like I usually do once / week). Ran HW brass saver into the valve ports - all clean. There was no buildup in the ports or any buildup in the slides either. Since the valves on the M5050 are vented, any buildup tended to clog up the vent hole. Not with Blue Juice. Very clean. I can report that I'm still getting the same valve action as with other valve oils. I noticed that when I use BJ it has petroleum aroma to it. Thankfully don't notice the aroma while I'm playing, so that's good.

    The outside of the bottle says, "Synthetically blended. Fast, long-lasting. Helps keep horn internally clean". I really didn't know BJ was a synthetic. See image below. Click for larger image.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    /// edit ///
    Not sure if I was reading the label wrong, or the mfg caught a mistake. I notice now that the label reads, "Scientifically Blended" not "Synthetically blended".
    Last edited by RickF; 07-20-2017 at 10:35 PM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  5. #5
    I never noticed that! It certainly works differently from any synthetic I ever used. In fact, it seems like petroleum oil in every way I can think of.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    I found this description on Musicians Friend:

    "Blue Juice Valve Oil is a light, fast, refined petroleum product that's especially effective on close-tolerance musical instrument valves. What distinguishes Blue Juice valve oil—aside from its distinctive blue coloring—is that it delivers an anti-corrosion agent for extra protection. 2 oz."

    I wonder if the phrase "synthetically blended" has a special meaning. Or maybe they use a blend that is based on petroleum.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #7
    The words "synthetically blended" don't make sense to me in that context. Being a bit cynical, I think it probably was something marketing thought up.

    I still use Yamaha synthetic. But I would use Blue Juice if it did not strongly smell of jet fuel to me. I know to some it ha no smell -- wish I was one of those people.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    2,369
    Quote Originally Posted by JTJ View Post
    The words "synthetically blended" don't make sense to me in that context. Being a bit cynical, I think it probably was something marketing thought up.

    I still use Yamaha synthetic. But I would use Blue Juice if it did not strongly smell of jet fuel to me. I know to some it ha no smell -- wish I was one of those people.
    Yup -- clearly marketing hype/distortion in an attempt to prevent a part of their market from fleeing to synthetic products.

    "Synthetically blended" is particularly humorous because what it literally states is that the blending process (and not the product) is synthetic. Since blending is indeed an act of "synthesis" in the literal sense of this term, the statement that the product is "synthetically blended" is a tautology -- equivalent to saying that it's a "blended blend" .

    Sorry ... for most of my adult life I've been a professional logician in one capacity or another. Just can't resist when I see things like this. They make great examples in courses in logic or argument.

    The product, for many people, seems to be great. Over the past few years I've switched to the (genuinely) synthetic Yamaha oils since they seem to work the best for me. I continue to believe that performance of valve oils is at least in part a matter of the body chemistry of the player -- whether the oil is "natural" or "synthetic".
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  9. As a non-synthetic guy, I recently switched from Al Cass to Roche-Thomas per the advice of someone named iiipopes on TubeNet (see cut and paste below). I've since achieved a longer time between applications than Al with extremely smooth action on all my instruments and no bad smell. Went with a 16oz container from Brook Mays and use it to refill my smaller Al container.

    quote
    --- A brand that has fallen out of favor, but has served me well since I started playing brass over forty years ago: Roche-Thomas. It is a conventional oil that does not have any of the drawbacks that others have, especially Hetmans.


    I have NEVER had any problem with sludge, gunk, incompatibility with any tuning slide lubricant, or frozen valves EVER, and I have the best valve performance you can get. I have used it on literally hundreds of horns from 5th grade trumpet onward, both on piston valves and down the leadpipe to seal rotors when they dry out from lack of use, and it always performs, does not dilute down, and lasts as long or longer than any other valve oil. Period.
    Bob Tampa FL USA
    Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
    Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JTJ View Post
    ...I would use Blue Juice if it did not strongly smell of jet fuel to me. I know to some it ha no smell -- wish I was one of those people.
    John, it is the jet fuel smell in Blue Juice that gives one the full blast of hot air necessary to play those high and loud solo licks!

    Actually, I use Hetman AND Blue Juice (and some Wick too) on my horns. If I use just Wick or Blue Juice, it washes out too quickly on my Sterling (which has very fine tolerances). Using only Hetman #1 makes the valves a bit sluggish. So I use Hetman to leave behind a bit of waxy film and then use Blue Juice to make the valves really fast. I can then go for 3-4 hours of playing time before needing relube. I also have had no issues with gunk accumulation in the slides and only a little in the bottom valve caps.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

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