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Thread: Switched to Blue Juice valve oil

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Central North Carolina
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    Yeah, it's for these reasons that several vendors market what is essentially the same valve oil with different viscosities. Yamaha, for example has "Light valve oil", "Regular valve oil", and "Vintage valve oil" (the "vintage" part refers to the instrument and not the vintage of the oil as in "that's a fine 2012 Yamaha valve oil you have there, with excellent bouquet and finish"). Currently I do not use the Regular. For my Wessex EEb tuba and my Mack Brass euphonium I use the Light. For my "vintage" 1924 Buescher Eb tuba, I use the Vintage.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  2. #12
    Doug, that's an interesting approach to oiling valves! You are blending the synthetic yourself....

    I use the light Yamaha synthetic on my Adams, and don't have to oil the valves that much, maybe after every 5-6 hours of play. There is a synthetic "feel" which Yamaha and Hetman have, but I like the "feel" of Blue Juice the better, just not the smell. I actually like Ultrapure synthetic the best, but it requires too frequent reoiling, sometimes more than once in a rehearsal -- I think it is primarily a trumpeters oil.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,853
    I read an interesting post on TubeNet by Jay Bertolet, professional tubist here in S. Florida. Along with his brass tech, Chris Bluemel, Jay is experimenting with mixing the synthetic oils to get just the right blend for long-lasting, smooth valve action. He's now back to using Hetman's but oils every day. Says there's no build up when oiling every day. See link below for his post.

    Recipe for home made valve oil---
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  4. #14
    Rick, that is an interesting post. I've found just the opposite, frequent oiling with Hetmans increased gunk buildup, as it did with Yamaha. I find that oiling only when I feel the valves begin to get sluggish, and then only lightly after wiping them with a clean cloth works great for me -- almost no buildup. There's probably no hard and fast rule, just individual differences between horns, body chemistry, oiling routines, and oils.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    Yeah, all of this stuff is anecdotal as far as I can see. No one seems to have done a genuine scientific study of it. And very likely the oil manufacturers and vendors don't see much benefit in that since it would serve only to identify subpopulations which either can or can't use their particular products. And as a marketing approach it's likely more effective to leave that mysterious so that people will continue to try various products.

    I'm a little surprised that someone hasn't tried to do a Master's thesis on the subject. It's not innovative or demanding enough for a thesis in the sciences, but given some theses I've seen recently in Music, I think it would be perfectly acceptable and of some genuine value. However, doing it correctly would require collaboration with someone having some metallurgical knowledge and someone having some biochemical/metabolic/endocrine/whatever capabilities. I propose the title "A Study of DNA-linked Performer-related Lubricant Performance in Brass Musical Instruments." Anything short of this approach is just alchemy .
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    Yeah, all of this stuff is anecdotal as far as I can see. No one seems to have done a genuine scientific study of it. And very likely the oil manufacturers and vendors don't see much benefit in that since it would serve only to identify subpopulations which either can or can't use their particular products. And as a marketing approach it's likely more effective to leave that mysterious so that people will continue to try various products.

    I'm a little surprised that someone hasn't tried to do a Master's thesis on the subject. It's not innovative or demanding enough for a thesis in the sciences, but given some theses I've seen recently in Music, I think it would be perfectly acceptable and of some genuine value. However, doing it correctly would require collaboration with someone having some metallurgical knowledge and someone having some biochemical/metabolic/endocrine/whatever capabilities. I propose the title "A Study of DNA-linked Performer-related Lubricant Performance in Brass Musical Instruments." Anything short of this approach is just alchemy .
    This is a good idea, but add to the other experts someone who knows something about experimental design and the associated statistics. Too many people find "correlations" without knowing what they are .
    Frank Manola

    Pan American Eb, Meinl Weston 20, Wessex "Solo" EEb, King 2341 tubas
    Besson New Standard, TE 1150 compensating euphs
    Park Street Brass
    Old South UMC Brass & Organ, Reading MA
    Wakefield Retired Men's Club Band
    Windjammers Unlimited

  7. #17
    Just don't get the Blue Juice on your chops. I dumped some down the lead pipe of my rotary oval and made the mistake of blowing directly on the lead pipe rather than putting the mouthpiece in and blowing through that.

    BU-U-U-U-U-R-R-R-NNNN!!!!!
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  8. This reminds me of when I was a kid siphoning the gas out of my parents car to fill up the lawnmower gas can and getting a mouthful if I didn't time it just right. This was using a plain hose before those hoses with the squeeze thingy that never worked quite right.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
    Just don't get the Blue Juice on your chops. I dumped some down the lead pipe of my rotary oval and made the mistake of blowing directly on the lead pipe rather than putting the mouthpiece in and blowing through that.

    BU-U-U-U-U-R-R-R-NNNN!!!!!
    Bob Tampa FL USA
    Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
    Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,369
    Quote Originally Posted by fmanola View Post
    This is a good idea, but add to the other experts someone who knows something about experimental design and the associated statistics. Too many people find "correlations" without knowing what they are .
    Too true. By habit, I thought it went without saying, but it does require saying.

    Several years ago two different papers were published by well-recognized and highly experienced statisticians (one was co-authored by a friend of mine who is now "retired" and serving as the Assistant Director for Bioinformatics at the National Institute of Statistical Sciences). They demonstrated that (as I recall) roughly 80% of epidemiological studies published in peer-reviewed journals had "fundamental" errors in methodology. (For specialists in experimental design, this did not come as a surprise.) So even at the "professional" level, substantial care must be taken.

    Continuing a bit off-topic ...

    What appears to me to be an excellent demonstration of methodology in establishing a cause/effect relationship is in the recent paper in Nature on how artificial sweeteners can actually cause diabetic conditions: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture13793.html. This was covered for a couple of days in the national news a couple of weeks ago, but only at a shallow level. I'm always skeptical of "studies", but this report is incredibly well done. It's compelled me to eliminate artificial sweeteners from my diet except only for my morning coffee. And I'm a bit concerned about that, pending more dosage information (I'm mildly diabetic, but untreated with medicine). The methodology in this paper is remarkable.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #20
    Hey Rick, are you still using Blue Juice. Back in ~2008 or so, I asked Matt Walters, master repairman at Dillon music about the buildup I was experiencing with Hetmans, and he immediately said "try the Blue Juice....you'll thank me later." I switched back then, and I did thank him the next year. I have gotten used to the stink.

    I've seen these threads on the homemade valve oil, and I do think I will try it some day.

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