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Thread: A Question About Tone

  1. #11
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulmaybery View Post
    ... but more so I believe the success I was experiencing was due much more to the modifications of my physical approach to playing. One thing in particular I thought would have little or no effect was sitting with the hips apart and the legs and feet equally spaced and directly in front. When the pelvic cavity opened a bit more, breathing and resonance took on a whole new dimension. The other aspect of not craning the neck forward, but keeping the head, directly over the spine also made a huge difference in the way that I breathed, particularly on expiration.
    This same approach is encouraged and supported by the use of a tuba stand -- if it is of the appropriate sort -- since it allows you to orient the horn to facilitate such posture without having to wrestle with the instrument or to exert muscle pressure (from arms/shoulders/legs) to hold it in the correct orientation.

    My tuba stand is a self-made "sit on" type that fits on any chair and has an adjustable 'T' support (made from PVC) that is at the very edge of the chair and between my legs. See photo below. Muscle fatigue is reduced to next to nothing, it is easy to sit with both feet on the floor as described, and it's also easy to shift your feet and legs around a bit at times to relieve tension -- without it affecting the position of the horn. I use my seat stand even with my quite small old Eb horn because, even though I can easily hold it, using the stand makes things so much easier and relieve all of those problems.

    Once you've used an effective stand, you realize how much of your energy used to go into just holding and orienting that large instrument, shifting it on your lap, keeping it in position, preventing it from sliding, etc. And it allows you more easily to determine your posture and focus on your breathing.

    With a number of commercial stands (those that sit on the floor), this is more difficult because the support area for the tuba sits a bit too far in front of you and it's more of "You have to go to the tuba" rather than "You bring the tuba to you" -- so you can't get the "Head directly over the spine" orientation. But if you get (or make) the right stand, it can really enhance exactly the sort of posture, reduction of neck craning and tension, and improved control and breathing that's being described here.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  2. Gary. Your "sit on" stand is great. You are so right when you mention that a floor stand, even the more trim ones like BBC - due cause you to move forward in your seat, some more than others. Keeping the head over the spine does make a huge difference and as we compromise things, we loose some of the benefits. I sort of get the idea of how to make one, but would you be so kind as to post a few more pics and perhaps some info on how you put this "puppy" together. In your photo the details of the mechanism are a little fuzzy. I am anxious to have such a great appliance.

    FWIW: My F tuba (BMB 6/4) that I am sporting in my photo rests nicely on the thigh of my right leg. It was made as a lap horn. Because of the angle of the mouthpipe, I struggled to find a way to deal with that as it was always slipping away, particularly in concerts when I was wearing dress pants. (I might add that I appreciate the angle on the mp as it forms a great ergonomic angle for the hands over the valves) I have a BBC tuba rest, and tried a block of wood as well. At one point I had gathered all the parts to mount a cello peg on the back of the horn, and even considered the Dee Stewart rest. My prototype of the peg idea showed one disturbing feature and that was the peg tended to be "just a little too intimate (and sometimes painful) with my manhood." I kept thinking it would be nice not to have to lug one more thing to a gig. That is when I thought of wrapping the bottom bow of the tuba with something that offered some friction on my pants. I was leery of anything rubber as we know what that can do to silver. I found a neoprene product, designed as a kitchen drawer liner. (ACE Hardware) It had a slight texture to it. I believe it comes on a roll and is a 24 x 48". I cut it in 2" strips. Cut the ends on a 45% and taped enough together to cover the entire bow. That took roughly 28 feet. I have to say that I love it. No sliding whatsoever. It protects the horn, and even looks cool. However, that is the only horn of mine that is a lap horn, the others either sit on the chair, or like the 6/4 BAT need a rest. (The mp on the BAT is 4 inches about my mouth when on the chair.) I am debating having it lowered.
    Last edited by paulmaybery; 11-30-2014 at 02:46 PM.
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    I'll take some more pics and post them. I actually stole the basic design from someone on the internet who was making something similar and selling them for $75. I'll look and see if his site is still around. I made some modifications, and mine is pretty crude in terms of fit and finish. But it works great.

    I went through the whole "How can I keep the tuba from slipping all over my lap" thing, tried a number of things, and none of them worked very well. Then I made the stand.

    I just got back from playing a Tuba Christmas thing with my euphonium rather than a tuba. It was killing me because my chair (typical Walmart folding chair) is too low for me and my knees end up just a bit higher than my butt. After about an hour, it was really hurting. I need to get a higher chair, or take my tuba stand (or a thick cushion) when I play the euph -- if just to sit on.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368

    Pictures and specs of sit-on tuba stand

    Here are some (not very good) pictures of my stand. And here's a materials and specs list:


    • The base is 3/4" plywood, 14"x18 3/4 ". I think the front angles are about 30 degrees. You need those in order not to have it interfering with your legs. The edge is rounded over with a roundover bit. The dimensions ensure that it will fit into/onto virtually any chair or folding chair you're likely to encounter.
    • The support is 1 1/2" PVC, made from one straight piece and a 'T' that was cut off to form a 'U' channel (band saw or whatever you have). The top of the 'T' is currently padded with some split rubber fuel hose (on the top edges) and some closed cell foam (in the 'U' channel).
    • The plastic knob I got from (I think) Rockler. You MIGHT be able to find one at Lowes or Ace or ... The one I have just takes a 1/4" bolt and the hex head snaps into the knob. It's about 1 1/2" long.
    • The bolt goes into a brass threaded insert that's epoxied into the front edge of the base.
    • There is a piece of aluminum 'U' channel with a 1/4" hole in it that goes over the front edge of the base and the threaded insert. It's screwed onto the base (top and bottom). Without this, the adjustment knob will pull the bushing out of the base -- no matter how much epoxy you use .
    • The top cushion is just a seat cushion I got at Walmart. But when I used this alone, I discovered it wasn't enough and the seat was uncomfortable. So what you see underneath it is a piece of closed cell foam that's about an inch thick (and was left over from some kayak modifications).


    That's all there is to it. I use it for both my large and small tubas. I'd use it for euph too, but I'd have to raise the support so far that getting on and off the seat would require some contortions. But I may still do that. It's important to have the adjustable support for two reasons. Different chairs you sit in will require the support to be at different heights; and it's nice to be able to lower or remove it for putting in a case for transportation. My "tuba support bag" WorldTour percussion equipment bag I got for maybe $25 and is great. The stand fits into it with no problem (as well as mouthpiece case, 3-ring binder of music, other music. Case for glasses, pens/pencils, tuner. And assorted other junk in the outside pocket.

    I can no longer find the site where someone was making something like this for sale. So maybe he gave up on that.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Img_0732.jpg   IMG_0733.JPG   Img_0734.jpg   Img_0735.jpg  
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  5. Hi Gary. This is so simple it is genius. Many thanks for sharing.
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by paulmaybery View Post
    If I had to say one thing that has benefited putting all the elements together, it would be the extremely deep and relaxed approach to breathing with a wide open throat and a comfortably use of the face muscles. Tension and 'tight' embouchure seemed counter productive. Steve Mead mentioned one thing that help to achieve that beautiful ringing sweet sound and for me - that was 'not scrooching the nose.' I never realized how much the sinus area affects the color of the sound.
    What Paul says! Also pay attention to your mouth and how it colors the sound -- I believe Highams once wrote he had students play as if there were a hot potato in their mouth.

  7. It has been a while since this thread was begun, and there are a lot of issues to touch upon. The forum seemed a little quite lately so I thought I would stick out my neck and see if anyone is there.

    These days, many of my personal playing issues come from being somewhat along in years and while I feel my artistic level is very high at this point, my physical body finds many things considerably more difficult than when I was in my earlier years. Not impossible just not as easy. Hence, my goal: "Play smart, play efficient."

    I will address the issue of some of the physical elements involved in producing a gorgeous sound that I had not mentioned earlier. Bear in mind that I am working this out on a tuba, but the principles are pretty much the same for low brass in general.

    The mouth is indeed a very critical factor in all of this concern over having a gorgeous and elegant sound. In several articles on mouthpieces and matching them to the player, Phyllis Stork of Stork Custom Mouthpieces has hit the mark on one particular concept. (You can google Stork Custom Mouthpieces - and navigate to the Library area where there are a series of articles) Phyllis draws attention to a player's tendency to "crush" the mouth. That is the tongue tends to move up and close off or squeeze off the air at the roof of the mouth. Yes, we talk about keeping the throat open, and that is truly part of the equation, but there is yet one more obstacle before the wind finally exits through the embouchure, the mouth itself. I've often heard players who use the syllable "tee" when ascending. Yes, it does help a bit when doing lip slurs, going from a "tah" to a "tee". Yes the "ee" syllable narrows the air passage and accelerates the air speed and helps the upward slur achieve a bit more thrust and "grace." (A good tool when used wisely.)

    This past year I have had the time to systematically analyze and do remedial work on my own playing. One of my goals was to achieve an altissimo register to C above piano middle C and above, without effort or strain. When I was able to keep the air moving across my chops, they would vibrate a nice buzz. When the mouth closed up, nothing, nada, zip. Keeping the tongue from ascending to the roof of the mouth was the issue. Rather that trying to order it to move, it was simple to just form the syllable "toh","too" or even "tay" and then it went to the right spot and remained in the lower portion of the mouth where it would not 'crush' the air stream. I have to say that not only did the super high C come nicely and without any physical strain, but the mouth cavity enjoyed its new openness and I am truly excited at how beautiful my tone has opened up and has a golden shimmer to it... something I always wanted and could not quite figure how to attain. (I like what JTJ posted about thinking you have a hot potato in your mouth.) Very good imagery to achieve the open mouth.

    It seems as human beings we are prone to work harder than necessary. We tend to involve 'isometrics' and pit muscle group against muscle group. In the lower abdominal area we push in the lower muscles as we expire, but I have seen so many folks who push against that with the diaphragm and negate their efforts to a large extent. (They do quite comically achieve a nice hard 'gut' ) How to overcome that. Practice blowing with the old plastic water pipe can simplify the process of learning to avoid this isometric obstacle. The effect that I worked on and I believe that I achieved is to have a free blowing supply of wind, coming without any interference, from the depth of my lungs, and supported by those lower abdominal muscles - passing through the throat over the tongue (which is nicely out of the way in the nether regions of the oral cavity) and then through the embouchure. The only body resistance that I feel that is necessary is that created by the embouchure as it tightens and loosens to control pitch. That is coupled with the resistance or atmospheric pressure inside the mouthpiece. When this balance of resistance issues is attained, the sound will be open and resonant and you will find that playing winds up taking so much less effort. Of course practice your buzz. Practicing on a practice mute helps as well in developing the core and focus to your sound. The aura or corona of you sound will be enhanced by the nice open wind way from the bottom of your lungs to the buzzing flesh on your chops.

    TIP: One simple thing that did help get the ball rolling was to start the airstream, make sure it is blowing really clear and strong and then slowly set the lips to vibrate on some really nice high note. At first it almost seems like a 'whistle" Often times we choke off the air before we buzz the chops and then wonder why not much happens. Having a continuous air stream ahead of the note will give the note a nice healthy place to ride on.

    The altissimo playing can only be achieved with an open mouth, which has benefits for all the registers.

    I practice these concepts on the CC 6/4 BAT, the F tuba and the Euphonium.
    I find though that each day the ol' body wants to go back to doing it the old way. Old habits are hard to break.
    A very careful warm up starting with relaxed and directed breathing starts the day. Then the buzz, and then scales and intervals in a solfege manner similar to a singer. Never forcing. It goes without saying that this all depends on dead accurate pitch centering.

    I've taught for almost 40 years and have had many brilliant young men and women in my studio. What I have always emphasized is that 'yes, they are smart young people,' but their bodies are untrained and uniformed when it comes to the physical aspects of playing a musical instrument. One must train one's own body, in the same manner as a trainer would train any animal. Doing things over and over, with minimal mistakes, will eventually build the desired habits. If you train smart and efficient, your playing will reflect that.

    OMG - this is one long article. :-)

    Hope someone gets something from it.

    Paul
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

  8. #18
    Yes, I most definitely got something from it. Thank you Paul!

  9. #19
    Thanks Paul. I appreciate the thoughts. Definitely something that I've noticed since turning 50 is the diminished lung capacity. I don't have the lung capacity that I used to and I have to play smarter. I'm not always doing that though! I like the concepts that you discussed about the relaxed playing. That is something that has definitely helped my upper register. I don't have a Super C though! Thanks for the thoughts. Very helpful.

  10. Always enjoy your posts
    Bob Tampa FL USA
    Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
    Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim

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