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Thread: New/"Old" Besson Sovereign 967

  1. New/"Old" Besson Sovereign 967

    Hello All,

    An update on my travels in selecting a new euphonium to replace my 2007 Besson Prestige. I sold the Prestige and kept my Sterling Virtuoso because I wanted a "triggerless" horn. While I absolutely loved playing the Prestige, I was using it only about 20% of the time and decided a "backup" horn that played more like the Virtuoso was in order. After much searching and calling for a new (or near new) Sovereign 967 (German manufacture) I found that it was not going to happen at a reasonable price. I then called Matt Stoecker (Quinntheeskimo). While he did not have a listing of the horn I was looking for, he indicated he had one coming in (silver 967-2) and quoted me a price. Within a couple of days the horn came in, he photographed it and listed it on eBay at a higher price. He emailed me with the listing and said he would honor the lower price. Attached is that listing:Besson 967. The serial number is 886xxx which is in the last year (2001) of production at the old Edgware Road facility in London. While an English manufactured 967 was not my first choice, since the listing looked pretty good, I went ahead and purchased the horn and the ebay listing ended about 20 minutes after it went up.

    The horn arrived in good condition three days before scheduled, and I had a whole weekend to work with it prior to turning it over to Osmun for a final check. Had there been any problems, I would have returned it to Matt, out the cost of shipping both ways (around $120).

    Findings:

    1. Aesthetic condition - near flawless. Silver is 99+% with a couple of rub spots. No dents at all. I polished up a couple of spots and cleaned the fingerprints, etc. with Windex and a soft rag. Horn looks fabulous.
    2. Valves - good, but felts and dampers were perished and guides on 1-2-3 were very worn. Valves had been dry for quite some time and had a hard coating of "plaque". I ended up cleaning the valves, putting new guides on, and replacing the dampers and felts. I added top cap felts to the horn. Valve action is now very good, though not quite at the level of the German built horns.
    3. Pitch - Surprisingly good. The horn is near spot on from pedal C to the highest notes, except for the 6th partial. Concert Eb above the staff is horribly sharp (30+ cents) but ok and responds well with 1-3 alternate fingering. Concert E is lippable with 2nd valve. Concert F is also lippable open or in tune with a really poor responding 4th valve. Other notes that were sharp on my Prestige, 2nd partial F (4 valve), middle F (open), middle G (1-2), and high G (1-2), G# (2-3) are actually spot on. Even 2nd partial Cb (1-2-3-4) is in tune!
    4. Response and playability - pretty good. The full floating leadpipe (more later) seems to cause the horn to slot really well and the high B natural is actually pretty decent. Other than 6th partial pitch, no bad notes. Have to work just a bit harder in the very high and very low range than on my Sterling.
    5. Sound - (Preliminary) - Very good sound. Darker than the German built horns. However, certain notes seem to resonate a LOT (2nd and 3rd partials) and feel like too much energy would cause the notes to sound blatty fairly easily. I can feel this resonance in the bell and the leadpipe and suspect that a brace on the leadpipe would help tame it.


    After putting 3+ hours of playing time, servicing the valves and thoroughly cleaning the horn, I turned it over to Jim Becker at Osmun music. After cleaning the slides, I had noticed that the water key holes had metal lips on the inside from being drilled and not chamfered. Also, the small leg on the tuning slide and on the 2nd valve slide were quite loose. Jim chamfered all three water key holes, cleaned up one internal solder ball, and worked on the slides. The horn passed his inspection and I have accepted it.

    Enhancement Plans:
    1. Aesthetic enhancement: The valve caps and water keys are now being gold plated. I have Prestige finger buttons already. When done, I want this horn to look like a "triggerless" Prestige.
    2. Playability enhancement: I really don't care for the full floating leadpipe on the Sovereign. It positions the horn awkwardly for me and I believe causes some of the over-resonance. Based on experiences from Charley Brighton and others, I plan to replace it with a York Eminence leadpipe and receiver from Rosehill in the UK. The goal is to have this horn play as much like a Prestige 2052 as possible. (At a substantial savings in weight and cost).


    As soon as I get the gold bits back, I will post my own pictures.

    Doug
    Last edited by daruby; 02-05-2014 at 03:05 PM.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  2. #2
    Congrats, Doug! Interested to hear what the York leadpipe does for intonation for you. Lucas Spiros has a similar age 967 on which he's had the valve caps gold plated.
    Last edited by bbocaner; 02-05-2014 at 04:23 PM.

  3. Couple of other comments about the Sovereign and the buying experience.

    1. I found out afterwards that my Sovereign is just 4 serial numbers earlier than the Prestige 2052-2 of our solo euphonium player in NEBB.
    2. I will have the entire Sovereign leadpipe, receiver, and receiver support removed in one piece so that if needed, it can be replaced. From the first valve elbow joint back to the mouthpiece will be all new parts.
    3. I found dealing with Matt Stoecker to be a pleasure. He was very responsive and professional. The horn was as represented.


    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  4. Doug,

    Congratulations on your new horn! Sounds like a fun project with a cool outcome. Enjoyed reading your summation and look forward to seeing and hearing about the end result! I bought my Sterling from quinntheeskimo and had a similar positive experience. My valves, like yours, were dry for quite some time but with a little massaging I have a beautiful horn. Any idea where he get his euphs from?
    Bob Tampa FL USA
    Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
    Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim

  5. #5
    Good for you, Doug! Patience, creative thinking, and follow-through would make nice middle names for you!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    Congratulations Doug! Looks like a very beautiful instrument. Enjoy! David

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    Congrats on your new horn Doug. Please keep us updated as to what ever changes after adding new leadpipe is added.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  8. Pictures of the Sovcereign (looking like a Prestige)

    So I got all of the bits back and put my 2001 Sovereign back together. Plays wonderfully. Looks great.

    See attached:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sovereign-1.jpg   Sovereign-2.JPG   Sovereign-3.JPG   Sovereign-4.JPG   Sovereign-5.JPG  

    Sovereign-6.JPG   Sovereign-7.JPG  
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  9. #9
    That is one nice-looking euphonium!! Congratulations!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    Wow! That horn looks brand-spanking new! Congratulations.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

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