FS Adams Euph

[JTJ]

They have an Adams gold brass for sale. Thoughts? I have two Bessons (Prestige and an old silver plate Sovereign) I could trade or sell but was not sure if this is the way to go. The Prestige has the tuning trigger but sometimes it isn't enough for me. Is the Adams a lot better in the sixth partial? Or is it better to wait for something like your setup with the sterling bell? Thanks. Tim

If you buy the Adams, I would keep the Prestige until you can play them side by side and determine which works better for you. They are both great instruments, but the player determines which is the best for him/her self, depending on taste and playing style. Without a trigger, on Adams, the sixth partial concert F is pretty good, but the sixth partial E flat, in my experience, can still be sharp. The Adams is built -- again in my experience -- a little flatter than most euphoniums. My E2 takes no slide pull when cold, and in a winter-cold band room is flat until warmed up. When fully warmed up, I almost never pull more than 3/8".

That said, I play an E2 Adams with silver bell, and would not switch.

[davewerden]

The Prestige has the tuning trigger but sometimes it isn't enough for me.

I meant to mention this earlier. Are you saying that you can't get the Prestige in tune on the 6th partial, even with the trigger? I wonder if it adjusted correctly. The Prestige is sharp there, but the trigger seems to handle it for most players.

I mention it because it's possible for a player, out of habit or whatever, to push notes sharper than the horn actually wants to be. If that is what's going on here then you need to address that or you will find any horn to be too sharp.

[JTJ]

I mention it because it's possible for a player, out of habit or whatever, to push notes sharper than the horn actually wants to be. If that is what's going on here then you need to address that or you will find any horn to be too sharp.

I've wondered if that might be the case with me. But in other euphoniums I've played, I end up pulling to a pretty common average.

[Brassman123]

Thank You!

I meant to mention this earlier. Are you saying that you can't get the Prestige in tune on the 6th partial, even with the trigger? I wonder if it adjusted correctly. The Prestige is sharp there, but the trigger seems to handle it for most players.

I mention it because it's possible for a player, out of habit or whatever, to push notes sharper than the horn actually wants to be. If that is what's going on here then you need to address that or you will find any horn to be too sharp.

Thank you to all for the welcome and advice. Dave, you are correct in that I tend to play naturally sharp. I attribute that to pushing a bit too much air (i.e., the Arnold Jacobs school of brass playing) but it could be I am just buzzing a higher frequency than needed. While I love the Besson sound, I was told that some Prestiges play better in tune than others so perhaps it is a combination of problems.

[JakeGuilbo]

The intonation on my Adams is 100% in line with what jrpretty24 said. 10c sharp 6th F, Sharp top space G, 10c flat 2nd space Eb. I also have a flat low A natural.

[mariopallazola]

Are Adams euphoniums really that good? What aspects are custom? Is it worth the extra money for an adams rather then a 642 neo or a 697 sov

[RickF]

In a word, yes. But everyone's idea of a perfect horn is different. They might have a different sound they're looking for. You can search this forum for lots of discussion on the Adams.

You might start here:
Adams vs Sterling Purchase

[davewerden]

Are Adams euphoniums really that good? What aspects are custom? Is it worth the extra money for an adams rather then a 642 neo or a 697 sov

The answer to your last question is "Yes" if you want the best playing experience you can get. The 642 and 967 are both professional-level horns, but the Adams is much better in my opinion. Better response by far, and better intonation. One key feature is that all the tubing is hand-made into its shape, and the tube wall thickness is maintained throughout the instrument. Adams feels this helps the resonance, and it seems to hold true. Adams makes virtually everything themselves. They even own the factory that makes the valves.

The horns come in 5 metal thicknesses. Thinner gets you a little better response, but thicker gets you a more solid tone at higher volumes. Metal thickness choices are .50, .55, .60, .70, and .80. My choice it the .60 for all-around balance, but the .55 is my second favorite.

You can get the horn made from yellow brass, gold brass, red brass, and the combination of all those combined with a solid sterling silver bell. These choices also affect the sound.

You can get a shiny finish, a normal satin finish, or the brushed finish (my own choice). You can order with an antique finish if you want.

You can get the horn unfinished (raw brass).

You can get all-metal valve caps, or caps inlaid with mother-of-pearl, wood, or other colors.

You can get fancy bell engraving if you want.

If you want a little larger or smaller bell they can do that.

They will engrave your name on the tuning slide tubes.

You can get standard water keys or Amado keys or Saturn keys. My own has Amado, including on the 2nd valve. The 2nd valve also has a stud inside the crook to help pull it out when you need to (I don't like pulling on the Amado key). I'm just ordering a new one, which will have Amado keys on 1, 2, 3, 4 and the main tuning slide. The main slide will have it reversed so I don't accidentally press it with my tummy.

Beyond that they will customize other factors for you. My own has a lowered/bent leadpipe to match my embouchure better.

They include a Bonna case, which is possibly the best hard case to be included with any brand. It has removable backpack straps as well.

They can probably customize almost anything else you would need.

[JTJ]

If you are going to fully customize the horn, you need to find a dealer who knows the options and will work with you (not all have had the service ethic to do so). It becomes a "bespoke" instrument when you customize it to the levels Dave writes about.

I think Adams needs to create an Adams web site for the USA, like car auto manufacturers do. Call it "build your euphonium". All options would be listed: E1, E2, bell material, material thickness, finish (with pictures, because, for example, many do not know what the difference between the satin look and the brushed look is...). The site would drill down through all the options, then you could print out your final configuration and would be given a list of authorized dealers who you could contact. Final retail price to you would be between you and them.

I have been spoiled by the Adams euphonium. I wrote maybe the first post on them on this site many years ago after playing a sterling silver bell Adams. For me, the silver belled horn is the way to go. I periodically try others, but always decide to stay with the Adams.

John

[Msan1313]

I think Adams needs to create an Adams web site for the USA, like car auto manufacturers do. Call it "build your euphonium". All options would be listed: E1, E2, bell material, material thickness, finish (with pictures, because, for example, many do not know what the difference between the satin look and the brushed look is...). The site would drill down through all the options, then you could print out your final configuration and would be given a list of authorized dealers who you could contact. Final retail price to you would be between you and them.

Now that I would love to see!

[dsurkin]

I'm just ordering a new one, which will have Amado keys on 1, 2, 3, 4 and the main tuning slide. The main slide will have it reversed so I don't accidentally press it with my tummy.

David:
Maybe you already answered this, but do you play the E1? Looking at the website, it seems the E2 only comes in .80 gauge.

[davewerden]

Yes, I play the E1. And I believe you have it right for the E2 availability as well.

[davewerden]

Speaking of customizations, check out this custom trumpet they did for Joey DeFrancesco (click to enlarge):



And this custom euphonium engraving job (I think this shows Olivier Haas playing a horn from an Adams show somewhere):

[dsurkin]

I'm just ordering a new one, which will have Amado keys on 1, 2, 3, 4 and the main tuning slide.

Dave:
I'm curious about why you're getting a new horn. I thought I remembered reading that your current Adams horn is only a few years old. Did they make changes to the design, or did you decide on different customizations, or is there another reason? If a change in design, does this mean a lot of Adams owners will be unloading their old-design horns at a sharply reduced price that would appeal to us amateurs (he he)?

[davewerden]

Dean,

Your memory is correct. It's been about 3 years.

I had an opportunity in Feb (I think it was) to test a horn from the newest production run, so I did. I liked it so much that I decided to use it on my March recital at Iowa. They have done some ongoing improvements over time, apparently, because even though it was brand new it played just a little easier/smoother than my original horn. They also modified the standard body wrap in two ways that I liked. First, it angles out from the body slightly more and makes my right arm more comfortable (although I prefer the look with the old horn closer to my body). Second, they have reduced the left-hand grip span enough that it was completely comfortable for my weakened left wrist. On my original horn, the made some custom changes to the wrap to help do that, but at the same time it reduced the clearance of the 1st piston when taking it out to oil or clean (I actually would take off the 1st finger button to be sure I would not scrape the bell). On the newer Adams euphoniums I can have the nice grip for my left hand and have valves that have the usual amount of clearance.

At the same time I got the full-Amado treatment (I'll post more about that later) and ordered vented valves. And of course I asked them to copy the leadpipe angle from my old horn (the vertical angle, to fit my upstream embouchure better).

The only downside is the brushed finish is not quite as 3-dimensional as my old horn's. As you know these are mostly hand-made, and the person that used to do this is no longer able to handle the larger, heavier instruments. The new person has a different touch. I mentioned this to Miel Adams and he agrees that is does not "pop" the way it used to. I suspect he'll work with the new "brusher" to bring that look back.

Otherwise, this new horn is a real honey! My old one played great and I was not looking to trade it in just yet. I figured I'd wait for something more "dramatic." But they have done enough tweaking that I was convinced to trade now.