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Thread: FS Adams Euph

  1. Euph Question for You

    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Of course value (i.e. $$$) is always a personal decision. There are some pros who just like their old horns and don't buy newer ones, even though their playing level would seem to justify it. If anyone wants to try to justify it in business terms, they will be hard put to do so. Will a pro start making more money if he gets a little better horn? Probably not. A better horn might make his job easier and might allow him to stretch some performance ideas, but that's not exactly a measurable ROI situation.

    For an amateur, your primary reason for playing is not making money. In fact, if you play in a brass band (and some community bands) you actually pay for the privilege. So there is no ROI in monetary terms. HOWEVER, there is an unmeasurable but still very real ROI if you count personal satisfaction and fun.

    Suppose you're not the best player in the world, or maybe not the best player in your local band. If you compare a horn like the Adams to an old horn you are now playing (possibly something like a Yamaha 321 or even an old Besson), the new horn will make it easier for you to get notes out consistently and will play them better in tune inherently. Any that are out of tune will require much less work to correct once you are used to the horn. And the tone might be better, and it will almost certainly be more consistent across the range of the instrument. Aren't those worthwhile improvements? Surely they give you a return on your investment in the realm of satisfaction and the joy of making music.

    So each of us must decide if the investment is worth it, and that decision is not usually based on a dollar-based ROI. If buying a new horn can make you sound X% better immediately, it's worth something. And if you are gradually getting better through diligent practice, but the new horn puts you a year or two ahead in your development, it's worth something.

    The key in my mind to anyone's decision is not their playing ability. It is their appreciation ability. If you can appreciate the difference, that's what counts. All you have to decide is how easily you can afford it.
    They have an Adams gold brass for sale. Thoughts? I have two Bessons (Prestige and an old silver plate Sovereign) I could trade or sell but was not sure if this is the way to go. The Prestige has the tuning trigger but sometimes it isn't enough for me. Is the Adams a lot better in the sixth partial? Or is it better to wait for something like your setup with the sterling bell? Thanks. Tim

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,258
    According to all I've read, the Adams is one of the best on the sixth partials. See Dave Werden's intonation chart for Adams Custom here:

    BTW, welcome to the forum.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    Russian Christmas Music (Alfred Reed)
    El Cumbanchero (Rafael Hernández) cell phone video

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    El Paso, Texas
    Posts
    383
    The Adams 6th partial is the best I personally have played, and since I do own on older sovereign I know the pain of this. At worst F is still around5-10 cents sharp(varies with your setup) but is easily lippable. For me C5(piano reference) for me is generally flat with 1st valve so depending on the day I'll use open to play C, but other than that there isn't anything major(may be due to lack of strength in my high register). Top space G is anywhere from 15-20 cents sharp, or in tune with 3rd valve in place of 1-2. My second Eb in the staff tends to be around 5-10 cents flat when all my other notes are in tune, again easily lippable. Overall it's a great horn, fits me really well. The tone is gorgeous, even in comparison to the old Bessons.

    As far as bell material I couldn't tell you how much of a difference it will make, I don't have enough experience in testing the different materials and it changes with brands as well. I'll let someone else give comments on that section!
    Adams E1 SS, Gold Brass Body .6mm DE Euph N103 Jcup, J9 shank
    Meinl Weston 2141 Eb Tuba PT 84

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Leadwood, MO
    Posts
    547
    Congratulations on your new horn! I hope you enjoy it.

  5. #15
    The Adams 6th partial is the best I have found in all the horns I have ever tested or played long-term. Jrpetty24 describes the intonation quite well.

    As far as bell material, the SS bell gives me the sound I want, but that varies from person to person. The gold brass is also very nice. It's maybe a little livelier-sounding than the SS. Plus the gold brass will feel a little more lively as you play it. It's not as dense as SS so it probably responds more quickly.

    Have you asked them what thickness the horn is? If it is .60 or .70 I am pretty sure you would like it. If it is .55 or .50 then you would need to see for yourself. Those thinner metals respond even better but sound a little lighter, too. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from the thinner brass - the slightly better response will make the horn feel "friendlier" to you as you play and will still sound nice.

    I've played all the thicknesses and metals, and each has something to recommend it. In Linz I absolutely fell in love with a .50 red-brass Adams! It was not beefy enough for what I wanted to do, but it was a real blast to play and had a very pretty sound.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Brassman123 View Post
    They have an Adams gold brass for sale. Thoughts? I have two Bessons (Prestige and an old silver plate Sovereign) I could trade or sell but was not sure if this is the way to go. The Prestige has the tuning trigger but sometimes it isn't enough for me. Is the Adams a lot better in the sixth partial? Or is it better to wait for something like your setup with the sterling bell? Thanks. Tim
    If you buy the Adams, I would keep the Prestige until you can play them side by side and determine which works better for you. They are both great instruments, but the player determines which is the best for him/her self, depending on taste and playing style. Without a trigger, on Adams, the sixth partial concert F is pretty good, but the sixth partial E flat, in my experience, can still be sharp. The Adams is built -- again in my experience -- a little flatter than most euphoniums. My E2 takes no slide pull when cold, and in a winter-cold band room is flat until warmed up. When fully warmed up, I almost never pull more than 3/8".

    That said, I play an E2 Adams with silver bell, and would not switch.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brassman123 View Post
    The Prestige has the tuning trigger but sometimes it isn't enough for me.
    I meant to mention this earlier. Are you saying that you can't get the Prestige in tune on the 6th partial, even with the trigger? I wonder if it adjusted correctly. The Prestige is sharp there, but the trigger seems to handle it for most players.

    I mention it because it's possible for a player, out of habit or whatever, to push notes sharper than the horn actually wants to be. If that is what's going on here then you need to address that or you will find any horn to be too sharp.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    I mention it because it's possible for a player, out of habit or whatever, to push notes sharper than the horn actually wants to be. If that is what's going on here then you need to address that or you will find any horn to be too sharp.
    I've wondered if that might be the case with me. But in other euphoniums I've played, I end up pulling to a pretty common average.

  9. Thank You!

    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    I meant to mention this earlier. Are you saying that you can't get the Prestige in tune on the 6th partial, even with the trigger? I wonder if it adjusted correctly. The Prestige is sharp there, but the trigger seems to handle it for most players.

    I mention it because it's possible for a player, out of habit or whatever, to push notes sharper than the horn actually wants to be. If that is what's going on here then you need to address that or you will find any horn to be too sharp.
    Thank you to all for the welcome and advice. Dave, you are correct in that I tend to play naturally sharp. I attribute that to pushing a bit too much air (i.e., the Arnold Jacobs school of brass playing) but it could be I am just buzzing a higher frequency than needed. While I love the Besson sound, I was told that some Prestiges play better in tune than others so perhaps it is a combination of problems.

  10. #20
    The intonation on my Adams is 100% in line with what jrpretty24 said. 10c sharp 6th F, Sharp top space G, 10c flat 2nd space Eb. I also have a flat low A natural.
    Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
    K&G 3.5D

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