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Thread: some more tuba questions...

  1. #1

    some more tuba questions...

    i see some ebay auctions for tubas in "raw brass"... i can only think that it must mean no lacquer? what's the purpose? i used to hear Fhorn players when i was in music school debating whether or not to take finish off their instruments. i would hate to have to keep them clean especially after my experience with the little York Eb i just cleaned up...

    like i said, what's the purpose?

  2. #2
    Raw brass will tend to be more responsive because there is somewhat less mass to vibrate. Today's lacquers are not very thick because of the improvement in lacquer over the years (I think they are now epoxy based), so the effect is not as strong as before. For me, it would not be acceptable. Raw brass can turn your hands and clothing colors, or at least it did with some of the olders horns I've used. Maybe today's alloys don't tend to do this as much (anyone know?). Plus I prefer a more "finished" look, but I can see why some folks prefer raw (it looks particularly "cool" on a flugelhorn!).

    Adams offers an unlacquered version for those who prefer it. One such person is Adams artist James Williams of the Cherry Point Marine Band. He told me he likes the responsiveness of the raw brass version. There is more info from James here:

    http://www.adams-music.com/wf/artist...40CF79F6670CE3

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    thank you for your response... i understand. the F-horn players i knew used to argue this over and over. i read some posts you made in another discussion group earlier abt the differences between plated/raw/lacquered. i've used plated and lacquered, but never raw. i may try one... tubas have really changed since i was a serious player in my 20's. there are so many brands i'm unfamiliar with, i'm having to educate myself.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by mbrown View Post
    i see some ebay auctions for tubas in "raw brass"... i can only think that it must mean no lacquer? what's the purpose? i used to hear Fhorn players when i was in music school debating whether or not to take finish off their instruments. i would hate to have to keep them clean especially after my experience with the little York Eb i just cleaned up...

    like i said, what's the purpose?
    From what I understand this can also be a sign of a lacquered instrument having had "some major work" done to it. In this case stripping the remainder of the lacquer and going to raw brass gives a more uniform and acceptable (although higher maintenance) look.
    Bob Tampa FL USA
    Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
    Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim

  5. Raw brass does have a certain cosmetic advantage when having custom work performed, as there is no lacquer or silver to blemish. It (raw brass) is usually, to me, the sign of a well seasoned horn and presumably the player too. Several of my older tubas were raw, and, in my shop, I did quite a bit of horn modification without hesitation. The draw back is tarnish coming off on the hands and/or clothing - but that also depends on the chemistry of the player. I did find that over years a patina, somewhat brownish, could develop that would be rather resilient to touch. However, I never had much luck in getting it to develop smoothly for me though. (very blotchy with streaks where water would dribble etc.) Today, I much prefer silver as it is easy to spot plate after soldering - that is if cosmetics are an important issue. But for some reason I never really cared for lacquer, I guess being somewhat of an older tuba player, my experiences with the older lacquer, that actually was lacquer (not acrylic or epoxy) was never very favorable as it invariably always looked horrible in about a year. These days a clear (lacquer type) finish is very resilient and quiet easy to maintain.

    I simply enjoy and prefer a horn that mechanically operates as it should, quietly without leaks, even response, character of sound and pretty workable intonation. Finish is secondary.
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Raw brass can also be a sign that the original lacquer on the horn degraded to the point that the owner couldn't stand the appearance any longer and stripped it all off in order to get a better looking and uniform surface. Now you may wonder, "Why strip it off and not just re-lacquer it?"

    The answer is that stripping is a bit of work, but re-lacquering is HUGE effort. Not so much in applying the lacquer itself, but in preparing the surface, which must be meticulously buffed and then degreased and neutralized. And if any blemishes remain, they'll show up really well under a new coat of lacquer .

    When I get the time, I plan to remove the remaining lacquer from my oval euph and leave it raw. Once the horn gets a good patina, it shouldn't be a messy problem to handle it. Also, you can always just polish the raw brass -- like people polish silver. Not something I would want to do.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    ...but re-lacquering is HUGE effort. Not so much in applying the lacquer itself, but in preparing the surface, which must be meticulously buffed and then degreased and neutralized. And if any blemishes remain, they'll show up really well under a new coat of lacquer.
    I had a conversation with Paul Riggett of Sterling one time, and he said he would much rather sell a silver-plated horn. He said the lacquered ones are harder to prepare adequately... and he is talking about a "virgin" horn, not one that has been finished, stripped, un-dented, etc. That made an impression on me!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

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