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Thread: Modele Aug. Vanadorp, Le Triomphe, Persy, Brevete, Bruxelles 5 Valve Euphonium

  1. #1

    Modele Aug. Vanadorp, Le Triomphe, Persy, Brevete, Bruxelles 5 Valve Euphonium

    Hi everyone,

    Recently I was 'donated' an absolute wreck of an instrument by a local shop I carry out some repairs for. The titled instrument is missing all slides but the 2nd valve slide and needs a new mouthpipe before it will even be playable.

    As it is a 5 valve, it uses 3 different bore of slides, one bore for the main, another for valves 1, 2 & 3 and another for valves 4 &5. The bore of the 2nd slide I have is .563 which puts it in line with that of a Conn American-style euphonium (proberbly the best best starting point for a new mouthpipe). My main question is does anyone know what bore size valves 4 & 5 are?

    I have already looked up this on Horn u Copia and although it has 2 5V. Euphoniums listed under Persy, it doesn't cover bore sizes and the 2 it has has the main tuning slide into the 5th valve/ branch where as the one I have has the main tuning slide into the 1st valve/ mouthpipe.

    Any information on this would be apreciated.

    Kind regards,
    Philippe L'olive

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    2,040
    Certainly the best approach to this is for you to measure the bore sizes yourself, buy the necessary tubing, and then make and lap the slides. Even if I could find statements about the original bore sizes for an instrument like this, I don't think I'd depend on them .
    Last edited by ghmerrill; 03-30-2014 at 10:39 AM.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  3. #3
    Photos would be fun! I'm not sure they would help us, but maybe...
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  4. #4
    Seems like the bore is the least of the problems to solve... you will need to determine the slide lengths as well. Maybe you can locate one of the Horn U Copia instruments and obtain some measurements. I suppose you could start with a "long" experimental slide and cut it down as necessary. Bending the tubing and, in general, manufacturing the slide must be quite a challenge!
    Last edited by carbogast; 03-30-2014 at 11:57 AM.

  5. #5
    All the outside tubing is on the instrument, it's just the slides themselves that need building, which as the 2nd slide measures .563 and common meterial now is .562, i'm going to have to change all the outside tubing as well anyway but at least I have something to work with there.

    As for the main tuning slide and mouthpipe, i'm purposely going to fit the lead pipe long and then cut down as required so that there are no intonation problems. Also, I have nothing really to go off of here as other than the reciever, the mouthpipe & main had broken off long ago.

    Where the slides have been missing for so long and the instrument had been chucked around a store cupboard until passed to me all the outside tubes are dented as are the knuckles. I've rounded them but the ID of the outide tube is drasticly off standard size tube so i'm looking for more of a definative answer before I look at restoring it.

    My big problem with tubing, bore etc. is that as I am in the UK getting hold of tubing in the size I require is near impossible so I have to import what I need from the US which means I really have to stick to standard sizes if possible and order what I need in one go otherwise I get really stung on p&p and import duty. Once i've sorted a list of tubing requirements out, I can then talk to a company in Germany that I deal with to get quote on the slide bows I require.

    Other than that, the bell is in a good shape and the bottom bow and branches all require taking off the instrument to removed the dents and re-surface the parts but other than that in quite good condition. All the valves are present with their valve guides(i've attached a picture of one of the guides alone as they're not something you see everyday) and all but one moves freely but will probably need to rebuild them.

    For me this is a bit of a vanity project more than anything... I would like a working 5 valve euphonium for my collection and what's better than restoring one yourself, so there isn't any real hurry for me to get going on it as customers take priority.

    Kind reagrds,
    Philippe L'olive

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  6. #6
    That looks like a LOT of work waiting for you, but if you can get it done it will indeed be a nice horn to have around! The phrase "They don't make them like that any more" sure applies here! Good luck! Please keep us posted on your progress.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

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