Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Different Mouthpiece for Different Horns

  1. #1

    Question Different Mouthpiece for Different Horns

    I'm curious to know if people usually use a different mouthpiece for the different tubas they have. Like would you use a larger mouthpiece for a CC tuba than you would an Eb or F tuba?

    Thanks
    Ryan Clark

    Mack Brass Compensating Euph


    Bach 5G ~ Schilke 51D ~ DWUltra SM3U ~ DWSM4

  2. #2
    I'll open the conversation, even though I'm not primarily a tuba player. I use the same mouthpiece. But I suspect it has a lot to do with the music. I play mostly an E-flat tuba and exclusively in solo or brass quintet/sextet. If I were going to try to play Mahler in an orchestra, I'd have to use a much larger tuba and probably would need to learn to use a larger mouthpiece as well.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,362
    There's no simple answer to this. The answer is "Sometimes, depending on the tubas and the mouthpiece in question."

    For several years I used a Schilke 66 on my Eb Yamaha 321S. Then for years I used it on my Cerveny BBb. If you have a mouthpiece that you like and that works well for you on one horn, then you at least ought to try it on another.

    More recently, it's taken me months to settle on the Wick 2XL as perfect for me on my EEb horn. Would I use it on a BBb horn? I don't know. I'd give it a try. What matters to me most is the cup diameter, the rim width and contour, and the cup size/depth. I need to feel comfortable with all of those. So any mouthpiece I use will likely be pretty close in certain dimensions to any other mouthpiece I would use.

    On the other hand, I use a Wick 5 (not 5L) on my old Buescher Eb horn, but cannot imagine using it on any BBb tuba I've played. However, if I had a small 3/4 BBb tuba or an older smaller bore one, I would try a 5 or 5L on it.

    If this is more specifically a question about using a "larger" mouthpiece for a "larger" horn, then that introduces other issues. My general response to that is "No". Mouthpiece choice is (I feel) more a function of YOU than it is of the instrument you're playing. There are bounds to this, of course, but for the most part I don't see that there would be any necessity of changing mouthpieces if you switch among an EEb horn, a CC horn, and a BBb horn.

    Many tuba players (especially young and inexperienced ones) use mouthpieces that are just too large for them -- believing that using a large mouthpiece is a mark of expertise or that it will allow them to do things that a smaller mouthpiece won't. But this isn't true at all. The mouthpiece must fit YOU (not some abstract notion of how big a mouthpiece should be) so that you can make the best music with it. I was at a master class by Oystein Baadsvik a few years ago, and when the first student came out and sat down, Oystein's first comment was "That's a huge mouthpiece you have. Why have you chosen it? It seems to me that it is too big for you and is contributing to some of your problems." (or words to that effect so far as memory serves).
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  4. Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    Many tuba players (especially young and inexperienced ones) use mouthpieces that are just too large for them -- believing that using a large mouthpiece is a mark of expertise or that it will allow them to do things that a smaller mouthpiece won't. But this isn't true at all.
    I'm a somewhat recent tuba doubler and can say that Gary is absolutely correct. I've experimented with MPs all the way to the bigger PT-50 and the huge PT-88 and LM-4 in search of the magic easy low "cash register." What I've found after time and embouchure development (and private lessons) is that my Roger Bobo Symphonic which is smaller in size and depth gives me both comfort and an equally if not better low register without the fatigue as well as pressure and discomfort on the upper gums that the LM-4 was causing.
    Bob Tampa FL USA
    Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
    Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    There's no simple answer to this. The answer is "Sometimes, depending on the tubas and the mouthpiece in question."

    ...The mouthpiece must fit YOU (not some abstract notion of how big a mouthpiece should be) so that you can make the best music with it.
    Gary is absolutely correct. The strange thing is that a huge mouthpiece is the only one that really works for me. I have tried a wide range of mouthpieces over the years and always end up back on the huge models since they feel right and I can support them. These days I use the one in my signature below exclusively on any tuba I play. The only time I switch is if the mouthpiece will not physically fit into the instrument (euro shank vs. normal shank). It is hard enough to understand a different instrument when switching between tubas. The last thing you need is to annoy your embouchure by adding a different mouthpiece.

    I also do not prescribe to the other notion that floats around in conversations of this nature that a tuba mouthpiece can be too "big" for a tuba in a sound sense. In a supremely theoretical sense this is probably true. However, in practice, I have never found there to be an issue as long as the mouthpiece can fit into the shank properly.
    Dan

    York 3082 - Silver 3+1
    Giddings & Webster Bayamo Heavyweight

    Practice by itself is not fun but it sure makes performing an absolute blast!

  6. #6
    I use a single mouthpiece for BBb playing and have a smaller mouthpiece (More shallow) that I use for solo/quintet work or when playing on an EEb. (which I no longer have). I have known a lot of players that have 5-6 mouthpieces that swap them out frequently but I don't ascribe to this. No equipment will ever substitute for hard work in the practice room and lessons from a quality instructor!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,362
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdh2000 View Post
    I also do not prescribe to the other notion that floats around in conversations of this nature that a tuba mouthpiece can be too "big" for a tuba in a sound sense. In a supremely theoretical sense this is probably true. However, in practice, I have never found there to be an issue as long as the mouthpiece can fit into the shank properly.
    Within limits this is true, but there are limits. The difference, however, isn't in what notes can be played (e.g., on a small tuba with a big mouthpiece), but rather how those notes sound. A large mouthpiece that works great on your medium size or large BBb horn CAN be used on your small old American or British Eb horn (assuming it fits appropriately in the receiver), but it won't sound all that good. When I was trying any number of mouthpieces on my 1924 Buescher Eb tuba, I experimented with a variety including: Wick 3AL (bass trombone mouthpiece), Wick 2NAL bass trombone mouthpiece), Schilke 60 (bass trombone mouthpiece), Bach CB (contrabass trombone mouthpiece), Kelly 25 with turned down shank (Bach 25 tuba mouthpiece clone), Wick 5, Wick 3, Schilke 66, and Miraphone TU17.

    All these "worked". But the bass trombone mouthpieces didn't yield a "tuba" sound. The CB really was "too big" and gave a goofy sound. The Kelly 25 was okay. The Wick 3 was too big (again in the sense that the horn just sounded a bit funny -- hard to describe -- and the intonation was wonky). Same for the Shilke 66. I had the feeling that the TU17 might be really nice if only it had the right shank. But I wasn't about to mess with it because the Wick 5 is quite good and I'm happy with it.

    However, I do agree with you that a lot of the dogma you see along the lines of "Those old instruments need smaller and shallower mouthpieces" has no empirical support that I can see. I've begun to suspect that this belief comes from a couple of things. The first is the (very few) examples of period mouthpieces we actually have today. (I once asked on a forum for a specific example of such a mouthpiece and got ONE response .) And the second is the number of instances in which tuba players (and at times very good tuba players) have tried a few mouthpieces with an old instrument like this, been unable to get it to play well, and given up with the conclusion that it was a mouthpiece problem and they just didn't have the correct size (vintage) mouthpiece. I, on the other hand, am pretty confident that these instances are not indicative of anything about the mouthpiece, but rather are a result of the instrument not being made to play at A=440 -- and people don't realize this. If you've got an instrument pitched at 435 or 438, that's actually pretty CLOSE to 440 and you can convince yourself that you can "lip it up" or that you just don't have the right mouthpiece for it. And I've seen people say about such instruments "I just couldn't find a mouthpiece that would work with it." But in those cases it's NOT the mouthpiece -- it's the pitch of the instrument. But such examples perpetuate the myth about the mouthpieces.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  8. #8
    After a huge number of years of not playing, I just bought an old Mahillon Tuba without a mouthpiece. It has a 13mm tube. I was looking at the wide range of options and am rather lost, until I saw the option of using a 3D printer to make them at a low cost. Hopefully this way I can find what size suits me best before investing in a good one.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by desdaile View Post
    ...until I saw the option of using a 3D printer to make them at a low cost. Hopefully this way I can find what size suits me best before investing in a good one.
    Now THAT is an interesting option we have with new technology! Does anyone know how much it costs for the raw materials to use a 3D printer to make a mouthpiece?
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. #10

    3D printer costs

    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Now THAT is an interesting option we have with new technology! Does anyone know how much it costs for the raw materials to use a 3D printer to make a mouthpiece?
    It is not so new, I found a thread on a 3D site from 2004 talking about tuba mouthpieces. But bringing it up to date, current material costs for silver coloured ABS plastic would be less than 5 Euros for a mouthpiece (if you already have the printer costing around 1000 Euros). But more likely you would not have a printer, so you need to go online to find a local printer (3D Hubs) - costs would be about 10 Euro for the printing, plus several euros for the materials. But still a lot less than a new one, and you can design it exactly how you want it. Printing is in units of 0.1mm, so not totally smooth, it would need sanding down with fine paper, or dip in dilute acetone.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •