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Recording Bell Tubas (King, Conn, et al)

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  • ghmerrill
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 2382

    #16
    Originally posted by paulmaybery View Post
    I never understood why the industry just did not return back to the helicon. They were still being made and used in the 1st 4 decades of the 20th century.
    I would speculate a combination of

    1. Helicons were (mostly) not "American".
    2. Helicons (mostly) had rotary rather than piston valves, and piston valves had come to be strongly favored, particularly in American organizations.
    3. Sousaphones had much larger bores and more "power" (directional or not) than the smaller helicons.
    4. Helicons (and similar things like oval euphoniums) are something of a pain in the neck in large (particularly seated) ensembles since the sound source is directed into its neighbor's ear. If you have ever sat to the left of an oval euphonium player, you would know what I mean.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

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    • paulmaybery
      Member
      • Sep 2014
      • 85

      #17
      Conn, King, Buescher, Boston, Keefer and others all made helicons well into the 20th century and they were ALL piston valves in both BBb and Eb. There are many photos showing US military Bands in the WW I era and later that were sporting them. The helicons from these companies were identical in the valve block and main body of the loop to their sousaphones. Now granted, there were smaller helicons, mostly the Ebs. I have one hanging in my office and 3 in the garage. Yes they were pretty small, but these were the stencil imports that were marketed to the thousands of amateur town bands. The earlier instruments made mostly in the American North East in the mid -19th century by the premiere American makers were indeed pretty small by comparison and in that period were outfitted with string linkage rotary valves, but they were disappearing when Conn bought out Isaac Fiske in the 1870s. This is also when the caliber of the instruments began its journey toward largeness. The American helicons and the European ones were considerably different. And then there is considerable variation in the European models as well.
      Last edited by paulmaybery; 11-29-2014, 07:14 AM.
      BMB F tuba 445s
      BMB CC (BAT) 865s
      Mack Euphonium 1150s
      Wessex F Cimbasso

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      • Davidus1
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2008
        • 622

        #18
        Originally posted by paulmaybery View Post
        One more thing - here's a bit of a history lesson if I may be so presumptuous as to lecture. Tubas with upright bells fall into a category referred to by some as "ambient" instruments in that the sound from the bell is not directed in any particular lateral directionr. The same can be said for upright bell euphs and baritones, and (french) horns that face the rear. Being both a musicologist and a conductor that in certain situations works in the field of "HIP" (historically informed performance) I have come to understand that the directionality of instruments can be an issue these days as it was during the "Golden Age of Bands" and particularly with the virtuoso bands such as that of Sousa. Seating the band then becomes a complementary issue. For instance in the Sousa Band, (circa 1900) the were no brass instruments that intentionally faced forward to the audience. Bells either pointed up or were seated to face "across stage." This helped in give the band a very well blended sound. Sousa referred to this effect as a "oneness" of sound where individual instruments would not stick out but rather blend into a new complex of timbres. As we recall the original Sousaphones were built with upright bells, the purpose was to redirect the sound coming from the helicon whose bell basically faces forward. Somewhere in the early decades of the 20th century, the recording bell became the instrument of choice. Not just in the tubas but also the euphs, baritones and alto horns. Cornets were also being developed more along the bore of a trumpet in an attempt to get a larger sound. The Sousaphone eventually developed a second 90 degree bend to return the bell direction back to forward directionality. I never understood why the industry just did not return back to the helicon. They were still being made and used in the 1st 4 decades of the 20th century. Several times each summer (since 1980s) I conduct a band that is of a high professional level. I insist on all upright tubas and euphs and am also careful in the seating of the brass section in general. Modern tastes are to have trumpets and trombones facing forward for the excitement of the sound. A much different effect from a century ago. One of the bands that was responsible for the recording bell craze was the Goldman Band of New York: an extremely fine (and very loud) band. What one might expect from New York. Today it is very rare to find bands of that calibre outside of the major military units and some of the finer university bands. Tuba players usually bring to the band what they happen to have. Its important to remember that during the "Golden Age of Bands" (1870s - 1930s) there were evolving tastes in instrumentation, seating, horn design, sound concepts and many other of the elements of style. There were also professional business bands at the top of the ladder, followed by municipal, and small town bands that were considered amateur. Each of those groups had yet other issues to deal with. Another thread for another time.
        Some great information. Thank you.
        John 3:16


        Conn Victor 5H Trombone
        Yamaha 354 Trombone
        Conn 15I Euphonium

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