Intonation for Besson Prestige 2052, Wilson 2900S, Miraphone M5050, Yamaha 642II Neo

[bbocaner]

When I bought my 2052 prestige in 2011 I tried six of them. I brought a strobe tuner. The intonation was indistinguishable on all of them. The response and tonal quality was slightly different, but I couldn't discern any difference with intonation. I have issues numbers 1 and 2 that doug mentions, but not 3 and 4 at all. Issue one varies based on the mouthpiece I use with the instrument quite a bit. With the Doug Elliott setup that I came up with, it's very manageable without the trigger or alternate fingerings.

I like having the trigger because you can blow right through the center of notes and correct intonation that way. It is less tiring and results in a much more consistent tone color if you are doing all of your adjusting with the trigger and none of it with lipping or alternate fingerings. Not just bad intonation tendencies on the instrument, but also matching your section or finding your place in a chord (just intonation versus equal temperament.)

[djwpe]

I've not had the pleasure of playing the Yamaha Neo, sorry. One thing I forgot and wanted to add about the Miraphone 5050. The low Bb is flat (2nd partial I think) and really needs to be lipped up.

Interesting perspective, Rick. I actually tune so the 2nd partial B-flat is dead on, and lip/trigger other pitches. It helps me for when ensembles go sharp around me.

Don Winston

[RickF]

Interesting perspective, Rick. I actually tune so the 2nd partial B-flat is dead on, and lip/trigger other pitches. It helps me for when ensembles go sharp around me.

Don Winston

Thanks Don. That's another benefit of having a trigger. I have to compromise more not having a trigger.

[GigaOrion]

Does anyone know if the Besson 967 benefits from a trigger? Does it need it as much as the 2052 needs a trigger?

[davewerden]

Does anyone know if the Besson 967 benefits from a trigger? Does it need it as much as the 2052 needs a trigger?

In my opinion (having played a 967 for 10 years) I'd say "yes" and "yes."

[daruby]

I played a first generation round stamp Sovereign 967 for 25+ years and my German manufactured Prestige 2051 for 7 years. The intonation tendencies (sans trigger) are very similar. So much so, that Besson now produces a 967T (with trigger) that is imported into the British Brass band scene in the UK. The US organization does not want to import it since it causes some issues with sales of the 2052.

[MichaelSchott]

As a Willson 2900S owner, it has some quirks like most high end euphs. The biggest is F in the staff which is quite sharp played open. Played 1 and 3 it's slightly sharp. The A concert above that is flat. My upper range is very well in tune. The F and the A above are two worst notes.

[davewerden]

The F and the A above are two worst notes.

In a conversation long ago with Michael Colburn (at the time, solo euphonium with U.S. Marine Band, now the director) about his Willson 2900, he complained specifically about those same 2 notes. He was doing Endearing Young Charms on tour, and mentioned how tough the opening melody line was. "It goes from a really flat note on the horn to one that is quite sharp, so it sounds like you are outlining a minor third instead of a major third."

[Hiramdiaz1]

Dave, I think the operative phrase there is "long ago". I would argue that while the pitch tendencies remain the same, the newest Willson 2900's are far improved and the sound quality when adjusting is also extremely consistent. All instruments have tendencies, it's just what you feel like dealing with. It's all about your ears anyway.

[Hiramdiaz1]

Also I've played that horn, and can confirm the brands marked improvement in the pitch of those notes.

[MichaelSchott]

Dave, I think the operative phrase there is "long ago". I would argue that while the pitch tendencies remain the same, the newest Willson 2900's are far improved and the sound quality when adjusting is also extremely consistent. All instruments have tendencies, it's just what you feel like dealing with. It's all about your ears anyway.

Can you explain what you mean in the bolded? I haven't played a recent model 2900S and mine is 30+ years old. By the way none of the tendencies are serious issues and I've learned to compensate over the years. I can honestly say there is no other horn I'd want to own other than possibly an Adams. I've not had the chance to try a high spec version of this brand.

[Hiramdiaz1]

Can you explain what you mean in the bolded? I haven't played a recent model 2900S and mine is 30+ years old. By the way none of the tendencies are serious issues and I've learned to compensate over the years. I can honestly say there is no other horn I'd want to own other than possibly an Adams. I've not had the chance to try a high spec version of this brand.

The simplest and best explanation is that when adjusting the pitch, as is necessary in every ensemble, the Willson 2900 maintains its tone quality. The timbre/color/character/basic sound does not change drastically. I have noticed this being a problem with other models; when you adjust the pitch the sound goes with it (loses its vibrance/timbre changes/color gets drastically brighter or darker/loses focus/etc...).

Hiram

[davewerden]

If you're been following this closely, note that I moved a post/response to a new thread, because it was really a different topic (inexpensive euph and good dealers):
http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...d-Good-Dealers

[MichaelSchott]

The simplest and best explanation is that when adjusting the pitch, as is necessary in every ensemble, the Willson 2900 maintains its tone quality. The timbre/color/character/basic sound does not change drastically. I have noticed this being a problem with other models; when you adjust the pitch the sound goes with it (loses its vibrance/timbre changes/color gets drastically brighter or darker/loses focus/etc...).

Hiram

Thank you. I do not have extensive experience playing other horns as I've had my 2900S for over 30 years but to me it seems that it depends on how far you have to lip a note when adjusting. If it's a lot then tone suffers. This happens on my Willson on certain notes. It's also highly dependent on breath support. Maybe this is a larger issue with other horns, I don't have the experience to comment. Maybe it's just that you don't have to adjust that far on a 2900S vs say a Prestige.

[J_Herbell]

I know I am a little late (new to the forums and saw this thread and it peaked my interest). I have been playing on a 2052 Prestige for the better part of 6 years. I've enjoyed the horn immensely. Recently, I had the thought a while ago to start to tune with the trigger (whammy bar as my teacher has nicknamed it) halfway out and adjust each pitch with the slide individually. I've been doing this for about 2 months and it was very confusing at first and occasionally makes me go insane during faster passages. But I think it can be a beneficial way of playing.