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Thread: Video Comparison - Three Famous Euphonium Players

  1. #1

    Video Comparison - Three Famous Euphonium Players

    I just put up a new blog post. It has a little discussion of the value of comparing performances, then three famous euphonium players all playing Rule Britannia. Check it out and see what you discover!

    http://www.dwerden.com/forum/entry.p...rs-Comparisons

    Comments are welcome on the blog (or here).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
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  2. #2
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    So I get to do evaluations of three of the top euphonium players in the world? Right. Okay, here goes. For the most part I'll give you the words and phrases that occurred to me as I was listening -- rather than trying to be too discursive about it.

    Baglin:

    Somewhat fuzzy tone. Subdued, rather unemotional and unmoving to the point of being boring. Technically adept, but way too much focus on that. Not much dynamic contrast. Wouldn't be anxious to listen to it again.

    Mead:

    Dynamic, forceful, and (to at least some degree) emotional. Still a bit laid back in places, and maybe a bit too "artistic" (self-conscious?). Nice phrasing and tonal contrast, and good dynamics. Technically better than Baglin, but the low range was very disappointing. The flag waving was silly, but good showmanship under the circumstances. I would have preferred better articulation. Rich tone -- at least in middle and high registers.

    Frey:

    He wins. Singing, rich, and expressive tone and phrasing. Very good and interesting low range (blows Mead away on this, I think). Very lyrical (a description that I would not apply to the other two). Inspiring tone quality and an emotional and sensitive delivery.

    That's my take.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  3. #3
    If I were to attempt this piece, I would refer to Lyndon Baglon's, which I think was really sublime. His technique seems effortless and he never overplays the obligato (?) parts, rather, they serve the music perfectly.

  4. #4
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    I agree with 'carbogast'. I've had Lyndon's video bookmarked for many years. His sound is classic British and technique spot on.

    But... I've also seen Steven Mead perform "Rule Britannia" with the Brass Band of Battle Creek a few years ago with all his flag waving and it blew me away. Maybe a bit showy, but very impressive to be sure. Can't believe he can do all that fingering while holding the horn on his right thumb. His performance brought the house down.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  5. #5
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    I also prefer Lyndon Baglin's version. Refined, non-strident, and totally controlled to my ears.
    Might be the recording (I don't think so) or the difference between a modern Yamaha and an older Sovereign/Imperial (more likely), but Adam Frey's version sounds strident to me; perhaps that was the intent.

  6. #6
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    This is really interesting to me. You guys all strongly prefer Baglin's version, but I find it dull, subdued and lifeless. And you find Frey's "strident" while I find it full and rich. Also, when I first started listening to Baglin's my very first impression was "Not a very good recording", while the others seem better. Don't quite know what to make of all that, but I'm very surprised at the heavy support for the Baglin version. Maybe I have no taste . Or is it possible this is in part a preference for the "British" over the "American" sound? I'm quite curious about this.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  7. #7
    Without trying to dig into Gary's question just yet, let me say that I wasn't necessarily looking for so much overview comparisons. To me, or to the intent of my blog post, I was trying to direct the conversation to more granular observations, not to saying A is better than B or whatever.

    Part of the problem may be that my blog post had missing words! Too late at night when I composed it, I guess. Here is the phrase that I fixed:
    As you listen, make your own different evaluation of specific phrases or sections.

    The overall view of "A is better than B" is valuable, too, but not something I would normally open for discussion in public (or even in private in most cases). If A is better than B, there are probably several reasons that contribute to that opinion. What are those? Some of that has been discussed above, but in my own head I usually go quite a bit further.

    I find it really valuable in preparing music to get the audio magnifying glass out. If I like Baglin's approach better in the main theme, for example, I try to figure out why. Tone certainly contributes, but most times I find that tone is the smaller factor**. There are usually other things. Does he use more rubato in general, or does he use rubato in just a couple places that sell the phrase? Does he accent more/less or does he use different articulations (or subtleties within articulations)? Is his dynamic range in this section greater? And of course I like to look at the sheet music and see who observes all these things the most accurately, and then decide if I like the way player Q chooses not to observe things literally in places. How about vibrato? Is it fairly constant, or is there more ebb and flow during phrases. Etc. And this is a British piece, which I've seen many British bands perform. I'm looking for a sense of the elegance they almost invariably bring to the table.

    As an aside, in Baglin's performance I noticed the same alternate fingerings I used to employ to help with lip slurs during the theme. Not many players do this, in my observations. Such things are also good to notice.

    A long time ago I put together a tape (remember tapes?) of 5 trumpet artists doing the same piece. I would give it to students and ask them to compare and contrast. Just as with my new blog post, I wasn't trying to get an answer like, "I liked #3 best." That is interesting to me, but really I wanted them to analyze the different techniques and interpretations.

    So do you have thoughts to share on some of that type of detail? Gary went in that direction a bit, but I think there is more to be dug out.

    Let's see if those paragraphs help generate more discussion!

    ** One of my favorite brass videos is from a tenor horn player. Obviously his tone is not as rich as a euphonium player's tone, but that is not a barrier. Steven Mead's tone is somewhat different from David Childs' tone, but when I compare interpretations of music the tone is not much of a factor (although whether/how they change tone within a piece or between pieces might be).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  8. #8
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    I don't feel that I'm capable enough to perform (at least some of) the more granular analyses and evaluations that you're describing -- but it is a super exercise for me to attempt to do it, and I look forward to what others say at that level of analysis. Part of the game here is of course to learn to play better, in part by learning to "play like X". Not that you want to slavishly mimic X or play exactly or even mostly like him, but to borrow and adopt some of his playing features and capabilities.

    I think it's a lot like learning to write well. You can get the basics, but you can't get really good without carefully reading a pretty broad range of writers, and adopting techniques from them. Once I got out of graduate school and began to publish, I decided that I needed to write better (in several respects). The way I did this was to -- at least in part -- adopt portions of the styles of those I regarded as writers who were both precise and yet easy to read in order to remove what I regarded as some of the stilted and overly formal features of my own work. This amounts often (in analogy to music) to more care and skill in choosing words and crafting phrases, and fitting them together. The effort was rewarded about three years later when a senior and very well-known colleague (whom I'd worked with in graduate school) said "You know, you've really developed quite a marvelous writing style." But it was a LOT of work.

    However late in my life this, I'd like to do something of the same in music. But it will be a LOT of work .
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  9. #9
    I often try to imitate another player's turn of phrase, and it is virtually never a case of wanting to sound like that player all the time. But I want to be flexible enough in my own playing to change how I do things at will. Working that way adds things to my "tool kit." I may even try to master an effect when I didn't like the way it was used, but I saw some potential for it in some cases.

    And sometimes I unashamedly ask students to play a phrase exactly as I do. I try to make it clear I don't expect them to come out sounding like me, because we should each sound like our own self. But I ask them to imagine that a conductor (or even worse... an audition panel!!) asks you to play something differently than you ordinarily do. I'd prefer to say "Sure" and then do it! That takes some practice time spent outside your comfort zone.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. #10
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    Baglin uses two fingers on the second valve often. The trill in the beginning was lightning fast. Sound and technique seem effortless, as someone else already said. Very pleasant to the ears!

    Steven Mead does a great show. Seems like a gregarious fellow, even comes out in his playing and performing. Tremendous player, gobs and gobs of talent, my favorite I think.

    Adam Frey was very powerful, really blowing through everything, impressive power to his playing. Wish I could blow like that.

    P.S. I can't stand the slow section in the middle of this song. I appreciated that Mead made some fun of it. Tossing the flags on the floor would be a faux-pas in the USA though.........

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