Best Universities for Euph?

[enriquesdsualum]

I did a search to see if I could find a discussion on best schools for Euph but could not find any. My son is a Junior in High School and want to major in Music Performance. He was told University of North Texas and Cincinnati conservatory as best for Euph. Being that I am in California - I would prefer West Coast. He really has no preference since we have not done any college trips but UNT is now in his mind because that is his first recommendation.

If there was a school, for example, University of Oregon, that would compete with UNT then that would be preferable. If UNT is the best then we shall go on a visit there. Any recommendations on West coast schools or is UNT it?

If was telling him if he had to go East then something like Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State are all great Football schools but I did not know if those schools were music performance schools with emphasis on Euphoniums. What are this forum members thoughts on those schools for Euphonium players?

Finally, I see that Long Beach, a few miles from home - has a highly ranked music program but he tells me he was told that they were not high up there in their Euph department. Can anyone verify this?

Since my son is a Junior in High School we have a little time to do research. I will take ANY advice on what to look for Euph players in a university. Frankly for the DAD - I would take a school that offers full ride scholarships!

[davewerden]

Here are a few threads to get you started:

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread.php/15833
(initial post is missing for some reason, but there is some good discussion)

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...h-scholarships

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...on-Please-Help

UNT is a great choice for a really serious player. There are also a couple good choices in Arizona (ASU and UofA)

[knuxie]

Matt Tropman is a great teacher on the west coast. Contact him here: http://www.pacific.edu/Academics/Sch...t-Tropman.html

[enriquesdsualum]

Thanks for the replies....

Its very early - but for sure we will visit North Texas. Being a football fan in the west coast - I can honestly say I had never heard of that university. But at this point it will be up to my son - I will take him to visit several places and let him decide.

For sure to visit:

UNT
ASU
UofA
Oregon
UWash
Long Beach
San Diego State U - my favorite

Will add to this later.... some maybe's based on threads and this one - Colorado and Pacific

[ghmerrill]

I'm puzzled about the concern here is with football schools. Is this a concern in part about being able to participate in a significant marching band? Just not clear what it has to do with choosing a program for euphonium performance. There are, of course, a number of criteria in choosing a college; and it's good to be clear about what these are (and how important each is) before you start the process in any serious way. That allows you to make a good choice and also to avoid wasting time and money on looking at alternatives that you really know you're going to rule out anyway (because of financial, geographic, faculty, or other considerations).

Also (and I offer this advice from the perspective of at one point being a university academic for a decade), don't rely on what you think the "reputation" of a particular school is, and don't rely on the "reputation" or "ranking" of a school that you may see in various surveys. These reputations, in virtually any disciipline, always lag reality (often by as much as ten years), and the rankings are always a bit peculiar and based on criteria that might not be significant or matter to you or the student. Such considerations matter more for graduate students than for undergraduates, but even for undergraduates (and I think possibly in something like a performance program in music) they can matter. For example, the chance that an undergraduate would have to "work with" (in any sense) a particular professor in, say, chemistry is virtually nil. So if you want to try to choose a school based on what faculty it has, thinking that the student will work directly with these, then take pains to see if undergraduates actually have the oppotunity to do that. In some schools they will, and in others not. An undergraduate student may well get a better education and training by going to a "less prestigious" school than going to a "more prestigious" school but never working with the faculty that make it "more prestigious" because they only work with graduate students or a very select group of undergraduates. But determining these sorts of things requires some effort in talking to people at the school and/or current or recent graduates.

[enriquesdsualum]

I'm puzzled about the concern here is with football schools. Is this a concern in part about being able to participate in a significant marching band? Just not clear what it has to do with choosing a program for euphonium performance. There are, of course, a number of criteria in choosing a college; and it's good to be clear about what these are (and how important each is) before you start the process in any serious way. That allows you to make a good choice and also to avoid wasting time and money on looking at alternatives that you really know you're going to rule out anyway (because of financial, geographic, faculty, or other considerations).

Also (and I offer this advice from the perspective of at one point being a university academic for a decade), don't rely on what you think the "reputation" of a particular school is, and don't rely on the "reputation" or "ranking" of a school that you may see in various surveys. These reputations, in virtually any disciipline, always lag reality (often by as much as ten years), and the rankings are always a bit peculiar and based on criteria that might not be significant or matter to you or the student. Such considerations matter more for graduate students than for undergraduates, but even for undergraduates (and I think possibly in something like a performance program in music) they can matter. For example, the chance that an undergraduate would have to "work with" (in any sense) a particular professor in, say, chemistry is virtually nil. So if you want to try to choose a school based on what faculty it has, thinking that the student will work directly with these, then take pains to see if undergraduates actually have the oppotunity to do that. In some schools they will, and in others not. An undergraduate student may well get a better education and training by going to a "less prestigious" school than going to a "more prestigious" school but never working with the faculty that make it "more prestigious" because they only work with graduate students or a very select group of undergraduates. But determining these sorts of things requires some effort in talking to people at the school and/or current or recent graduates.

Thank you for your very detailed response.

The point that I was trying to make with "football" is my preference. I have 4 kids - 3 were athletes all the way through High School and 1 flirted with it at San Jose State. My last son is the ONLY one that had any musical talent. Thus I have no clue as to music or music schools. I go to judged performances and have no idea the good from the great. For this reason I mention "football" schools. My son on the other hand does not care for football schools or marching band.

I am trying to get more knowledge about the music world since in the end I am the one paying for my sons ultimate preference.

[enriquesdsualum]

By the way - my son is talking about RNCM in the UK. I have no idea where that is other than the UK. I will research that school as I don't know if it is impossible to get admitted to it because of tough auditions and/or grades. I also assume that school will be too expensive.

[RickF]

The football at RNCM (if there was any) would be COMPLETELY different.

[daruby]

The RNCM is the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester, UK. I just visited the campus this last month while in the UK. The two teachers there are Steven Mead and David Thornton, two of the finest euphonium performers in the world. The Royal Welsh College of Music (RWCM) in Cardiff, Wales, is also fantastic, with David Childs and his father Robert Childs the primary instructors. The style of euphonium playing in the British brass band scene is somewhat different than in the US military band scene represented by University of North Texas. Many of the American students who go to RNCM and RWCM, do so for a Masters in Euphonium performance as graduate students after they have completed their undergraduate music degrees. I would suggest that your son needs to get a sound degree in all of the music fundamentals (theory, musicianship, history, composition, conducting, etc.). Even if he is considering a performance career (he better be REALLY good), an undergraduate degree here in the US would likely provide a better background into career opportunities (music-ed or performance) here in the US. Once the fundamentals have been acquired, he can more likely benefit from the virtuosic skills of the teachers in the UK.

[MichaelSchott]

Perhaps things have changed since my college days but I was dissuaded by my college euphonium teacher from being a performance major on euphonium and it had nothing to do with my talent level. It was because there are so few gigs for a euphonium player. He suggested music education or some other major. I ended up in Marketing while still performing in all levels of bands. Even a player who later was a Navy Band soloist was an education major. But maybe times have changed in this regard.

[davewerden]

Perhaps things have changed since my college days but I was dissuaded by my college euphonium teacher from being a performance major on euphonium and it had nothing to do with my talent level. It was because there are so few gigs for a euphonium player.

That's not bad advice, but there are other ways of looking at it. If you have a lot of ability and want to be a performance major that's fine, but you just need to have a plan B as far as making a living. Perhaps you really want to devote energy to being the very best player possible (although you can get most of that as an ed major). And maybe you're also a great cook. So get some training and experience in being a chef. Or a mechanic. Or whatever. But you need something that will pay the bills. Then if you don't get a full-time music gig, you can work at the paying job by day and play in groups or do solos, recording, whatever on your off hours.

If you are not lucky enough to have a ready-to-go talent to nurture to help you earn money outside of music, then you need to do more planning.

No one should count on coming out of college and finding a playing gig - INCLUDING those who play trombone, trumpet, horn... not just euphonium. Playing jobs are hard to come by and every musician needs a plan B for making a living.

In my area here in the Twin Cities, there are two or three amateur brass bands and a good selection of amateur wind bands. BUT you can also earn a little extra if you make gigs for yourself. Maybe a brass quartet?? There are a LOT of fine musicians in this area, but only a limited number of those earn a complete living at it.

Just think of all the college majors where you are not guaranteed a living wage in that specialty. Cultural studies of various kinds; philosophy; etc. A young man I know very well was an English major and loved it (he has his Masters in English as well). He's now gainfully employed, but not really using his English specialty in his job. But he likes his job and he liked his major. So if your expectations are realistic, a performance major can be fine.

[MichaelSchott]

Thanks David. Your last sentence is spot on.

[ghmerrill]

That's not bad advice, but there are other ways of looking at it. If you have a lot of ability and want to be a performance major that's fine, but you just need to have a plan B as far as making a living.

This is the best possible advice for a young person looking at graduating from high school and looking at further schooling and a career -- and it's not at all limited to careers in music. And it's not just about making a living, but more broadly about having some kind of reasonable plan for what you want to do in life (and what you'll be able to do) if your "ideal life" isn't attainable for one reason for another.

Every year (I speak from experience, having gone through school -- all the way through graduate school -- with people like this) thousands of people get bachelor's degrees in various subjects in areas in which there are no careers. These are most typically in the humanities or arts, but not restricted to those areas. With stars in their eyes (and ignoring the explicit warnings that professional associations have been sending to them for decades now) they get accepted to a graduate program and many of them manage to get Ph.D. degrees. Way too many of them. Their ideal life is to become a tenured academic and a life-time university professor. This happens for only a very, very few. When -- often after from five to ten years of trying -- they realize this, they then face the prospect of finding a job AND A LIFE that are interesting and rewarding to them (both financially and emotionally). And at that point, that's VERY difficult because they've trained themselves only for a life that they CAN'T have. Some of them manage to recover. Some of them "retrain" or make use of skills that they've acquired and can "retarget". Others become very bitter and depressed for the rest of their lives, and have unhappy lives as a result -- always resentful that they "failed" in achieving their goals. It is wonderful to have goals and ideals that you strive for, but it is crazy and irresponsible and immature to put blinders on and see only that path. This applies to professional music careers and other careers that have severely constrained opportunities for success.

It's a difficult balance. You need enough "pedal to the metal" commitment to pursue your ideal and achieve it if that's possible -- anything less in a competitive area won't come close to succeeding. But you also want to be thinking that "For whatever reasons -- skill, luck, the economy, injury, familial obligations -- I MAY not end up with what I want." Also (and I confess that this was a large part of my own case), after spending all that time on successfully achieving that goal that you've had for so long and worked so hard for, after a few years you can look around and say "You know. I'm done with this. Need to do something else now." It's real good to always have the ability to do that.

All through my college and graduate school years, and prior to getting tenure many years ago my attitude was always "Well, I can always go back to driving trucks." Never actually did that. But I did manage to have two other careers after my "ideal" one -- the one I KNEW I wanted for my entire life when I was in my early 20s -- got tiresome and I walked away from it. So the big advice here, and just expanding on Dave's, is "Think ahead. Your life will likely be quite long. Don't paint yourself into a corner."

[Glenn Call]

Seems pretty Elementary to me. Find the people who are making a living playing the horn and find out where they went to school

I would make a distinction between people who play for a living and people who teach for a living. You are looking for a diploma or degree in performance not a degree or diploma in teaching, right?