Schiller Elite V Compensating Euphonium

[mrbeatty]

My son is a High School Senior and I am looking at purchasing a horn . He will be a music education major and needs a new horn. Does anyone have any experience with this horn?

[DaveBj]

I play a Schiller Elite (without the V) comp euph that cost $885 two years ago. It is actually a Jinbao JBEP-1150 (see my signature file), made in China and cloned from the Yamaha YEP-642. I am very happy with it, figuring that I got 90% of a 642 for 20% of the cost. Quality players of quality horns have tried it out and have been very complimentary about its intonation and how well it plays

I don't know what Jinbao had done to add a "V" to the "Schiller Elite" and cause a 100%+ price jump (well, I can see one thing -- a tuning trigger, looks like), but if this is still a Jinbao horn, the consensus from folks that I have talked to is that they have really pulled their socks up and are improving their quality all the time.

Edit: I just scanned through all the Jinbao brass inventory, and I could not find this horn. It looks like a 642 clone with the addition of the tuning trigger, but I don't know who the manufacturer is.

[davewerden]

Schiller gets good reviews on this site; a similar horn by Mack Brass is also well reviewed.

Do a search (the search box is near the top-right of this page) for Schiller and you'll find a ton of stuff. There are 20+ pages in the Cheap Euphs threads, covering several brands.

Has your son discussed this with his future teacher? That would be a very good move if it's possible.

[DaveBj]

Schiller gets good reviews on this site; a similar horn by Mack Brass is also well reviewed.

Do a search (the search box is near the top-right of this page) for Schiller and you'll find a ton of stuff. There are 20+ pages in the Cheap Euphs threads, covering several brands.

Has your son discussed this with his future teacher? That would be a very good move if it's possible.

I totally agree with Dave's advice -- if your son can liase with his college teacher and get his input, he should. Full disclosure -- I am a geezer whose last college music work was during the Johnson administration. I bought the Jinbao/Schiller because I wanted a comp horn, and it was cheap. I don't regret my decision, but it would not be a good move to spend $2k on a horn that his professor hates.

[Jonathantuba]

I rather think looking at the pictures that the Schiller Elite V Compensating Euphonium is made by Wisemann and not Jinbao. I have got no idea how it plays

[ghmerrill]

The Mack Brass horn I have is under $900 for a lacquer one and under $1,000 for silver. I hadn't played mine in quite a while because I've been working with my EEb Wessex tuba, but a few days ago I picked up the euph again and was once again impressed with its sound and performance. In terms of the Schiller V, if the primary difference is a tuning slide trigger, I'd be skeptical about going in that direction. I really don't think there is a need for that on this horn and would not see it as being worth the increased cost. I can't imagine using one on my instrument -- though I have had instruments that could have benefited from one, and I had a tuba (YEB 321S) that definitely benefited from the one a previous owner had added to it.

But in full disclosure (if it's not obvious from my avatar), I am also a geezer who is totally self-taught in brass. Checking with potential college teachers is a good idea, but to be honest (especially for a music education major) I'd be a little iffy about doing that myself. My concern would be that there are a lot of prejudices and strong personal preferences held by a variety of instructors about brands or types of instruments. I say this not as a matter of speculation, but both from statements made in various web forums and personal discussions. And once you ask someone, then you're in a situation where you probably don't want to disregard the "advice" you get and go in another direction. If you're planning on being a performance major and studying closely with one or two specific people, then I think that's a different matter. But I'm not at all certain that professors are all that fanatic about the equipment their education majors use. At least that's what I've seen around here. I know this goes against the "It's important to consult your professor" approach to some degree, and every situation is different; but there are LOT of euphoniums out there (Yamaha, Besson, old American horns, Chinese clones, ...) that would be just fine for a music education major and would avoid the expense of an instrument that a faculty member might recommend. If I were in your son's position, I'd try to find out what the professors felt fell into a good range of horns without necessarily asking for a specific "recommendation". How to do that's a bit tricky.

A possible approach would be to actually go to the school, walk into the music department and chat with a few people -- discussing your plans, economic constraints, etc. But I'm afraid that's pretty much fantasy. Having been an academic myself for a decade (many years ago), and more recently having taught again in a university, I am reminded that during the summer it is virtually impossible to hunt down any faculty, and the chance of actually finding a faculty member and having a conversation with him or her is pretty much nil. The day after grades are in, these guys are GONE. Just look at how frequency of posts on these music forums dives in June. But you never know. You might catch someone who has stuck around to teach a summer course.

[mrbeatty]

We are not sure where he is headed but have narrowed the field to Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss and Memphis. His current teacher is at Memphis and plays a Meinl Weston and recommended that for him. It is a bit out of my price range. He is currently playing a King 2880 4 valve. I just want to make sure we upgrade for scholarship auditions and state competitions.

[ghmerrill]

I just want to make sure we upgrade for scholarship auditions and state competitions.

Not having been through music school or having auditioned for anything for decades, I find this puzzling. Just curious what the need for the upgrade is. The immediate question that springs to mind is "What is the deficiency of his current instrument that makes it advantageous to switch at this point to a different one?" Based on my own experience in switching instruments (and even mouthpieces), I think I'd be reluctant to make a switch within a few months of having to perform competitively on the new horn -- especially if I were, for example, switching from a non-compensating to a compensating instrument. I'd be inclined to do the competitions with the instrument I knew well, and then -- as appropriate -- switch to a "better" one for the next stage in my development.

If there really is an issue with the current instrument -- like its intonation or sound is poor to the point that it can't reasonably be used in a competition -- then I guess I'd hurry up and get the new horn as quickly as possible and work, work, work with it. But a King 4 valve -- if it's the 2280 (I don't see a 2880) -- seems a perfectly able instrument for what lies ahead for him in the next year (or more). Switching to a compensating horn at this point could actually retard progress.

But I bet Dave and others reading this thread can weigh in on those issues better than I.

And by the way, someone recommending to an 18 year old (or so I assume) kid, planning on being a music education major, that he run out and buy a Meinl Weston horn is just ... well ... nutty. Actually, I feel that I'm being restrained in saying that. I know guys who went so far as getting an advanced degree in physics before deciding that they wanted to be professional musicians (and became very good ones -- one in bassoon in the NC Symphony and one in percussion in Albany), and there is a whole legion of people who started out thinking they wanted to be music teachers who are now doing all kinds of different things. My point is, people change their minds over time, and between the ages of, say, 18 and 25 people change their minds a LOT. And people between the ages of 18 and 19 change them at least as much . Perspective should be maintained -- along with funds that may be better spent for other things. But that's just my view.

[daruby]

We are not sure where he is headed but have narrowed the field to Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss and Memphis. His current teacher is at Memphis and plays a Meinl Weston and recommended that for him. It is a bit out of my price range. He is currently playing a King 2880 4 valve. I just want to make sure we upgrade for scholarship auditions and state competitions.

I assume his current teacher is a tuba player. I know of no professionals playing Meinl-Weston euphs in the US these days. Matt Tropman no longer plays the 751. Now that Meinl-Weston is owned by Buffett-Besson, I doubt that the development of their euphoniums will improve.

As regards the audition process, I suspect a Schiller would play better than the King 2280 (I have played both side by side). However, If your son is very talented, it will show through and a professional level instrument can help at the higher levels. If you purchase a Jinbao clone now (fine though it may be), he could also well end up wanting (or be recommended for) a pro horn of the Miraphone 5050 (Alabama), Besson, or Willson caliber before he graduates. This is why Dave and I always recommend talking to the college level instructor regarding purchase of an instrument.

By the way, I am not anti-Jinbao clone. I have favorably reviewed the Schiller several years ago and played several since. They play well, and are unbeatable for the price in the right hands, I still easily can tell the difference between them and the way either my Besson or my Sterlingplays. I can also guarantee that either my Besson or Sterling are more physically robust and more heavily built in comparison.

Good luck and best wishes on your choices.

Doug

[JTJ]

Re Meinl-Weston: Unless this reference is out of date, John Mueller is in Memphis and is noted as a Meinl-Weston artist, and is certainly a pro.

http://memphis.edu/music/bios/mueller_john.php

[davewerden]

I think JTJ is correct about Mueller playing a Meinl. Last time I saw him play he was still using it, and he certainly is a pro. However, he's the only one I can think of in the USA (not to say there aren't others, because I don't keep track of everyone!).

However, I agree with the assessment that Meinl is not a common recommendation. In all my years of testing horns I've never been impressed enough by the Meinl to ask for a long-term test, for example. But it's in the category of a pro horn, and in the hands of a good player can sound very good.

All the Meinl talk is just for general interest in this thread, because you stated it's out of you price range. (So I won't be suggesting an Adams in this thread!)

[coolguy684]

What is the price range? For 1250 GBP cash4brass.co.uk has a early 80s silver Imperial listed. Those are definitely nice horns, and if the date is correct it was produced along side the 'Globe Stamp' 967's. 1250 GBP is about a tad lower than 2000 USD, depending on how you pay. I don't know anything about the condition, however. You'd have to email the lady that runs the site and ask for pictures. It'd be good to get pictures of the pistons, to make sure there isn't corrosion or pitting.

link: http://cash4brass.co.uk/euphoniums.php

[hornet310311]

Hey everybody, im not really new here, but I don't usually respond to many threads.

I actually just ordered a Schiller Elite Mark V and it should be here in the next upcoming weeks, If you all would like I can give you details in it and its playability and general things like that

Would that be something you guys want?

[davewerden]

Would that be something you guys want?

Of course! We all like to hear impressions about horns. We can learn from each other.

[chriswoegi]

Hi

is there any new information available about the Schiller Elite V?
I can`t find any reviews of this horn and a read that the manufacturer is no longer JinBoa but Wisemann, so it would be very intersting to hear if the overall quality of the new "Schiller" is still as good as the older Elite Compensated horns.
I think that this horn should be exactly the same and maybe i will order an test it (30 days money back)
I hope my english is not too bad...
Best regards from good old Austria (not Australia!)
Chris