I give up on WWBW

[carbogast]

Mucisian's Friend is apparently another persona of the same company of which Woodwind and Brasswind is a persona.

Guitar Center and Music 123 are also part of this family of companies. I've dealt with all of them, without ever a problem so far. Here is a link that describes a bit of the history of Guitar Center, which is the brick and mortar star of the group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_Center

[ghmerrill]

Guitar Center and Music 123 are also part of this family of companies. I've dealt with all of them, without ever a problem so far.

I've been to a local Guitar Center as well and in fact bought stuff from them (though that ended up with them going on the web in front of me, ordering it just as I would, and shipping to my home including shipping cost ). From my perspective, Guitar Center has a lot of nice stuff and a lot of nice used (guitar) equipment at what appear to be quite reasonable prices. They did not, however, have the bass guitar strings I wanted, and I could have ordered them much more efficiently and cheaply myself. So I'm not really impressed with that degree of service. By the time I figured out what had happened, the order had been placed.

With respect to these odd experiences I've had (repeatedly) in what is shipped to me, it now seems clear that they all have to do with the following scenario: (1) I order some item or items, (2) One or more of the items I order is "not in stock" and needs to be shipped separately as a "back order", (3) When the back order is shipped, it's the wrong item -- but bizarrely related to the correct item in some way (usually in the sense that the correct item and the incorrect item share one or more words in their description), but (4) The wrong item actually comes with an explicit invoice for the correct item.

Examples: 1. I order a tuba mouthpiece. What comes is a tuba mouthpiece pouch, but the charge is for the mouthpiece because that's what the invoice is for. 2. I order a bottle of valve oil. What comes is a bottle of trombone slide oil, but the charge is for the bottle of valve oil because that's what the invoice is for.

It's like the people (at least some of the people) responsible for filling the back orders don't actually match the item number, but match a part of the phrase in the description to some item and send that. And no one checks that in the package that's shipped, the item(s) match the invoice. Surely I can't be the only one this is happening to.

Then there are the problems that I had with an item being shipped to me damaged or being the wrong item because it was placed in an incorrect box when (my guess) it was returned to them.

These problems seem to speak to a problem in care and process in the returns and back order departments of these companies (This company? Depends on how you look at it.) I don't have such problems when I order from places like DF Music or Hickey's.

I knew I was taking a chance with the order, but I figured "It's just a trombone snake and valve oil. What can they screw up? Maybe they have their act together now." Oh well, I'm going to stop complaining about it because there's just no point in venting.

[Euphearted]

Gary! I had no idea you played bass guitar as well! Now I have another potential customer when I begin to cull my herd. Hee hee hee. I have a quite different approach to shopping for strings and other bassanalia. I will
go to one of my area independently owned music stores and let them order what I want if they don't have it in stock. Yes, it takes longer and yes, it costs more, but I don't care. I'm willing to make those sacrifices in order to keep a mom-and-pop going. The local outlet can service my instrument; not so sure the big boxes can do that.

I'm still reeling from the closure last week of my local pharmacy, which had been in the same family for 55 years. A screw-up at the state level three years ago with state employee health insurance coverage ultimately did them in and jeopardized all the other independently-owned pharmacies as well. The Alabama legislature has one more day left in the current session, and once the dust settles from that the governor and the heads of both
legislative chambers will receive letters that will scorch their eyeballs. This administration *says* they are all about jobs.

[ghmerrill]

There is a classic cowboy movie (though set in Australia) titled "Quigley Down Under" that stars Tom Selleck. All through it Quigley (Selleck) maintains his "rifleman" persona and distains handguns. In the last scene, the bad guy forces him into a quick draw match which much to the bad guy's shock, Quigley wins. Lying in the dirt the bad guy says "I thought you said you didn't know how to use a handgun." Quigley replies "Said I didn't like 'em -- not that I couldn't use one."

So I say to you regarding bass guitars: Said I had one; not that I know how to use it. I took it off my son's hands when he decided that he really didn't have the time to learn it either. I will get to it at some point, but for now it hangs on the wall (about six feet away from the oval euphonium). Looks good there.

I'm all in favor of keeping local and mom and pop (or family owned) businesses going. I do that with my auto maintenance, tractor maintenance and equipment, auto body work (as needed), horse and pet supplies, and some other things. I also do it with any work I may need done (and can't do myself) to my brass instruments. With other stuff, it just isn't possible. It isn't possible for mom and pop stores any longer to compete with online providers in terms of inventory, cost, and efficiency. And my business isn't going to change that. The nation of small shops and independent businesses has changed (except for certain niche markets), and nothing is going to bring that back. And even the large chains (like Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc.) don't stock a lot of their "inventory" in the local stores. Instead you have to order it for home delivery or "delivery to the store".

Gee, in that regard it looks like we're moving back to the old model of ordering from the Sears, Roebuck or Montgomery Ward catalogs!! Just more efficiently and from much larger catalogs -- and with a higher degree of competition. This view makes me feel a lot better. So when I order my valve oil and slide grease from Amazon (or Hickey's, or DFmusic -- which by the way are in fact pretty much mom and pop stores -- just not very near me), or gear from Cabela's, or drugs from Caremark, or a tuba from Wessex in England (another mom and pop company), etc., I'm supporting the kind of marketing and economic system that made this country great! A return to yesteryear -- but with better means of communication. My complaints aren't about how business is being done, but (in some cases at least) with how well it is being done.

[Euphearted]

RE Quigley: I have the home video and recall the scene. My light-bulb moment from that movie was that Sharps made long rifles as well as carbines.

RE bass: Learn to play. Bass players can always find work. Good bass players can just about write their own ticket. I can sell you enough basses to cover an entire wall with them; the oval euph will have to move.
(Unless you would rather cover the wall with double-bell euphoniums; see my thread on Dave's shout-out.)

RE business realities: You appear to be willing to go gently into that good night (no criticism intended), while I would rather go down bloody. That being said, in the last month I have had TWO independent music stores REFUSE to sell me a Schilke 51D, which pretty much is going to force me to buy online. My passion for preserving the "old way" largely is based on service -- what you call "how well" business is done. I doubt the big boxes have much interest in that. The mom-and-pops . . . I go in and say "I want this," and they are happy to order it (the two music stores referenced above notwithstanding).

[davewerden]

...in the last month I have had TWO independent music stores REFUSE to sell me a Schilke 51D...

Wow. Did you get a sense of why they would not?

[Euphearted]

In the first instance, the store where my horns get serviced, I think it was a case of the owner trying to look out for my best interests, along with what I call the "curse of the distributor." His point was that he was not sure if he (in other words, his distributor) could even get the mouthpiece; and even if he could, it would not be done quickly. I should shop online. My reply was that time was not an issue and cost was not particularly, either. I wanted to support my local independent merchant. He wouldn't budge. I lobbied really hard for close to half an hour to get that man to let me give him my money, but nothing doing.

The other instance, a different store in a different city, was more like a trip to the Bizarro World. This owner was eighty-four years old and had had his store from 1955, and it largely was still like what a mid-twentieth century music store should be. The conversation began badly: the old gentleman refused to acknowledge that there was even such a thing as a medium-shank mouthpiece for euphonium -- only small and large --
and that to get the "correct" mouthpiece I should bring my horn to the store (the "gap" issue rears its head once again). He would not budge from this position. Unable to obtain a mouthpiece, I had to console myself with
purchasing a half dozen felt ukelele picks for electric bass.

But I got a laginappe anyway: a history lesson. The old man and I talked about the way school band programs had been back in the day, and I got brief tour of the store's legendary horn graveyard -- the bought-up inventories of other music stores which had gone out of business. Aisle upon aisle of brasses and reeds, with a few percussion thrown in. Gary M. could cover all the walls of his house with Sousaphones. The American Pickers would go nuts in this place. But no mouthpiece for me was to be had.

[ghmerrill]

His point was that he was not sure if he (in other words, his distributor) could even get the mouthpiece; and even if he could, it would not be done quickly. I should shop online.

There is a lesson here.

[Euphearted]

No doubt; but I always was a headstrong, recalcitrant student. <grin>

[BassclefBarrister]

I just purchased a Besson Prestige euphonium from WWBW. It was "in stock" when I placed the order and I received it four days later, well packed and undamaged. WWBW does offer a 45 day return policy, giving me plenty of time to fully evaluate the horn. There was a special offer, applicable to Buffet-Crampon products, that allows me to pay for it over an 18 month period at 0% interest - no other instrument dealer can offer this kind of a deal. (According to their web-site, the offer expired 5/31, but it is still posted there).

What did make this transaction work was that I knew what I wanted and know enough about instruments to be able to evaluate them properly. I must admit that the so-called "product specialist" was little more than an order-taker, and, while polite, was frankly clueless about euphoniums (Yes, I had to spell it for him) or the brand name Besson (had to spell that one too). That is a far cry from the days when Roger Lewis handled low brass and you could discuss with him the relative merits of one brand versus another. I guess that's what happens in the modern world of mass-merchandising. The buyer must be on guard but a good deal can be had.