1978 Besson New Standard -- Valve Guide Wear / Noise

[tampaworth]

I love and take pride in my euph as many of us do, but I think that over time there has been wear of the valve guides creating some rotational valve slap. Does anyone know what it might involve to repair this -- or, if it is just an annoyance, is it worth doing? It certainly doesn't not look like this is something I can do myself with a simple part replacement. Thanks for any suggestions.

[superted]

It's an easy fix for a skilled repairer, they can either use replacement parts or make their own parts.

If you email someone at http://www.windcraft.co.uk/ they should be able to send you the replacement parts required, that way you only pay for labour.

If it was my horn I'd get it repaired by a instrument repairer, valves can make or break an instrument.

[tampaworth]

superted Thanks for the advice. These are pictures of how the guides work. There is a metal projection on the top of the valve which appears to be part of the valve (doesn't seem to be removable) -- and a corresponding receiver slot in the valve housing, both of which can sustain wear. Seems best left to a skilled professional as you suggest. Any knowledge out there of a decent brass instrument tech in the Tampa / St Pete FL area. Figured I would ask before just taking it "somewhere."

[Euphman]

I use this thread as i have a similar issue: my first valve on my 3v Besson new standard shows much wear (the coating is partially gone) and i'd like to find a better one. Does anyone knows an online shop which sells this kind of spare parts?
Thanks.

[daruby]

Dawkes.co.uk has replaced windcraft.co.uk for retail supplies

I use this thread as i have a similar issue: my first valve on my 3v Besson new standard shows much wear (the coating is partially gone) and i'd like to find a better one. Does anyone knows an online shop which sells this kind of spare parts?
Thanks.

Re-doing the valve guide tabs (aka "Tacquets") on an older Besson is absolutely NOT a doit yourself type of repair for most of us. The correct part is BBH9172 at http://www.dawkes.co.uk/accessories/...+-bbh9172.html and is very cheap. But it requires filing and fitting to install these as they come oversize in order to be able to adjust for wear and manufacturing differences between horns (or even individual valves on the same horn). Further, there are now Delrin plastic tacquets available through repair supply folks. These can quiet down the valve action dramatically. I had these installed on my old Conn Connstellation and valve noise is a thing of the past.

Doug

[tampaworth]

Doug

Thanks for this feedback. I recently did some searching as well and found Nylon guides (tacquets) on EBay which I ordered and received (search "nylon screw to replace metal valve guides") from the UK which should have the correct metric thread. I read about the Delrin guides on Tubenet which are available from Kraus Music (but only to repair folks as they are a wholesale operation). Now that my newly acquired Sterling has been chemical cleaned and detailed I am bringing in my Besson today to our local recommended brass technician for a long awaited chemical cleaning and to have the Nylon guides installed. Most likely Delrin would be superior to the Nylon, but they can replaced in the future if necessary. Looking forward to the quiter action -- definitely!

[tampaworth]

Picked up my horn yesterday after two weeks of waiting and the valve guide tacquet replacement work wasn't done yet --- so I took my horn back home and did it myself with the guides I had purchased, needle nose pliers, a new sharp box cutter blade heated in a candle (to size them laterally), and (OK this is the weird part) a rotating foot grinding stone from a pedicure set to thin the height of the guides (very carefully), and a file to finish it all off nice and smooth! If anyone has a horn like mine and wondered -- should I do it? DO IT! The difference is like night and day. Smooth action and QUIET -- should have done it way sooner!

[davewerden]

Thanks for the story! Nice job on the modification. I've had a euphonium with plastic guides for so long that I tend to forget what it's like to have brass guides... until I get my baritone horn out to play something. Then I get really annoyed by the noise!

[fmanola]

Regarding valve noise, is this just annoying to the player, or is it also audible to the audience (I'm not so much talking about when the performer is miked, but in an ordinary un-amplified playing situation)? If it IS audible to the audience, how annoying do you think it is to them?

--Frank

[tampaworth]

Regarding valve noise, is this just annoying to the player, or is it also audible to the audience (I'm not so much talking about when the performer is miked, but in an ordinary un-amplified playing situation)? If it IS audible to the audience, how annoying do you think it is to them?

--Frank

Personally I think it is just annoying to the player -- But there is more involved than the annoyance of the clanking sound. The action is now incredibly smooth as well! Those with more solo performance experience might be better to answer this though

[davewerden]

Regarding valve noise, is this just annoying to the player, or is it also audible to the audience (I'm not so much talking about when the performer is miked, but in an ordinary un-amplified playing situation)? If it IS audible to the audience, how annoying do you think it is to them?

It depends. In a full concert band setting it is probably not audible to the audience. I never noticed sound like that from a section. However, if you stand up front and do a solo, it might be audible - more likely so if you have hard reflective surfaces near you, and more likely so in a very small hall.

New, well-fitted brass guides are generally not quite as noisy, assuming you keep the valves oiled. When they wear down, the rotation is greater so they can "bang" slightly harder against each side of the slot.

[coolguy684]

Did the nylon screws come large enough to accommodate guide slots that are a little more worn? Also, do they come with the correct 3mm by .5mm thread for old Besson New Standard valves?

[tampaworth]

They come with a hex head which is oversized (allows you to screw them in easily) and had to be trimmed considerably. They might accommodate guide slots twice as wide perhaps. The metric thread fit perfectly as well. The link in this thread is where I bought them from on Ebay (from England). Hope this helps.

[coolguy684]

They come with a hex head which is oversized (allows you to screw them in easily) and had to be trimmed considerably. They might accommodate guide slots twice as wide perhaps. The metric thread fit perfectly as well. The link in this thread is where I bought them from on Ebay (from England). Hope this helps.

How tough are they to cut? Would a candle heated exacto knife be suitable, plus one of those filing boards (forgot the name) for fine adjustment?

[tampaworth]

I used a candle (flame) heated box cutter. An exacto knife would be better. This is for the width (ie guide slot width). Seemed to work well. The real challenge is the height of the guide. The stock hex heads are rather high and require a decent amount of flattening to accommodate the slot. Emery boards would be the slow boat. A non-coarse Dremel worked carefully may work well. My rotary pedicure stone deal is sort of what I had at the time. It's a fun project with a great outcome!