I love and take pride in my euph as many of us do, but I think that over time there has been wear of the valve guides creating some rotational valve slap. Does anyone know what it might involve to repair this -- or, if it is just an annoyance, is it worth doing? It certainly doesn't not look like this is something I can do myself with a simple part replacement. Thanks for any suggestions.
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1978 Besson New Standard -- Valve Guide Wear / Noise
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It's an easy fix for a skilled repairer, they can either use replacement parts or make their own parts.
If you email someone at http://www.windcraft.co.uk/ they should be able to send you the replacement parts required, that way you only pay for labour.
If it was my horn I'd get it repaired by a instrument repairer, valves can make or break an instrument.Ted
Besson Prestige BE2052-8G-0 Euphonium
Besson Sovereign 956 Baritone
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superted Thanks for the advice. These are pictures of how the guides work. There is a metal projection on the top of the valve which appears to be part of the valve (doesn't seem to be removable) -- and a corresponding receiver slot in the valve housing, both of which can sustain wear. Seems best left to a skilled professional as you suggest. Any knowledge out there of a decent brass instrument tech in the Tampa / St Pete FL area. Figured I would ask before just taking it "somewhere."Last edited by tampaworth; 10-27-2012, 06:42 AM.Bob Tampa FL USA
Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim
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I use this thread as i have a similar issue: my first valve on my 3v Besson new standard shows much wear (the coating is partially gone) and i'd like to find a better one. Does anyone knows an online shop which sells this kind of spare parts?
Thanks.-----------------------------------------------
Manu
Yamaha 642 Neo
Denis Wick SM4X
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Dawkes.co.uk has replaced windcraft.co.uk for retail supplies
Originally posted by Euphman View PostI use this thread as i have a similar issue: my first valve on my 3v Besson new standard shows much wear (the coating is partially gone) and i'd like to find a better one. Does anyone knows an online shop which sells this kind of spare parts?
Thanks.
DougAdams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
Concord Band
Winchendon Winds
Townsend Military Band
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Doug
Thanks for this feedback. I recently did some searching as well and found Nylon guides (tacquets) on EBay which I ordered and received (search "nylon screw to replace metal valve guides") from the UK which should have the correct metric thread. I read about the Delrin guides on Tubenet which are available from Kraus Music (but only to repair folks as they are a wholesale operation). Now that my newly acquired Sterling has been chemical cleaned and detailed I am bringing in my Besson today to our local recommended brass technician for a long awaited chemical cleaning and to have the Nylon guides installed. Most likely Delrin would be superior to the Nylon, but they can replaced in the future if necessary. Looking forward to the quiter action -- definitely!Bob Tampa FL USA
Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim
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Picked up my horn yesterday after two weeks of waiting and the valve guide tacquet replacement work wasn't done yet --- so I took my horn back home and did it myself with the guides I had purchased, needle nose pliers, a new sharp box cutter blade heated in a candle (to size them laterally), and (OK this is the weird part) a rotating foot grinding stone from a pedicure set to thin the height of the guides (very carefully), and a file to finish it all off nice and smooth! If anyone has a horn like mine and wondered -- should I do it? DO IT! The difference is like night and day. Smooth action and QUIET -- should have done it way sooner!Bob Tampa FL USA
Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim
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Thanks for the story! Nice job on the modification. I've had a euphonium with plastic guides for so long that I tend to forget what it's like to have brass guides... until I get my baritone horn out to play something. Then I get really annoyed by the noise!Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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Regarding valve noise, is this just annoying to the player, or is it also audible to the audience (I'm not so much talking about when the performer is miked, but in an ordinary un-amplified playing situation)? If it IS audible to the audience, how annoying do you think it is to them?
--FrankFrank Manola
Pan American Eb, Meinl Weston 20, Wessex "Solo" EEb, King 2341 tubas
Besson New Standard, TE 1150 compensating euphs
Park Street Brass
Old South UMC Brass & Organ, Reading MA
Wakefield Retired Men's Club Band
Windjammers Unlimited
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Originally posted by fmanola View PostRegarding valve noise, is this just annoying to the player, or is it also audible to the audience (I'm not so much talking about when the performer is miked, but in an ordinary un-amplified playing situation)? If it IS audible to the audience, how annoying do you think it is to them?
--FrankBob Tampa FL USA
Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim
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Originally posted by fmanola View PostRegarding valve noise, is this just annoying to the player, or is it also audible to the audience (I'm not so much talking about when the performer is miked, but in an ordinary un-amplified playing situation)? If it IS audible to the audience, how annoying do you think it is to them?
New, well-fitted brass guides are generally not quite as noisy, assuming you keep the valves oiled. When they wear down, the rotation is greater so they can "bang" slightly harder against each side of the slot.Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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Did the nylon screws come large enough to accommodate guide slots that are a little more worn? Also, do they come with the correct 3mm by .5mm thread for old Besson New Standard valves?Christopher Chen
bolded are for sale
B&H 967 - Globe Stamp
B&H 960 (3 valve comp euph) - Globe Stamp
Salvation Army Triumphonic Eb Alto, silver plated
On the lookout for:
Silver plated:
pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Alto/Tenor Horn
pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Baritone (3 valve)
York/Sterling/LMI variants accepted
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They come with a hex head which is oversized (allows you to screw them in easily) and had to be trimmed considerably. They might accommodate guide slots twice as wide perhaps. The metric thread fit perfectly as well. The link in this thread is where I bought them from on Ebay (from England). Hope this helps.Bob Tampa FL USA
Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim
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Originally posted by tampaworth View PostThey come with a hex head which is oversized (allows you to screw them in easily) and had to be trimmed considerably. They might accommodate guide slots twice as wide perhaps. The metric thread fit perfectly as well. The link in this thread is where I bought them from on Ebay (from England). Hope this helps.Christopher Chen
bolded are for sale
B&H 967 - Globe Stamp
B&H 960 (3 valve comp euph) - Globe Stamp
Salvation Army Triumphonic Eb Alto, silver plated
On the lookout for:
Silver plated:
pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Alto/Tenor Horn
pre '93, post '06 Sovereign Baritone (3 valve)
York/Sterling/LMI variants accepted
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I used a candle (flame) heated box cutter. An exacto knife would be better. This is for the width (ie guide slot width). Seemed to work well. The real challenge is the height of the guide. The stock hex heads are rather high and require a decent amount of flattening to accommodate the slot. Emery boards would be the slow boat. A non-coarse Dremel worked carefully may work well. My rotary pedicure stone deal is sort of what I had at the time. It's a fun project with a great outcome!Last edited by tampaworth; 04-10-2013, 05:22 PM.Bob Tampa FL USA
Euph -- 1984 B&H Round Stamp Sovereign 967 / 1978 Besson NS 767 / Early 90s Sterling MP: 4AL and GW Carbonaria
Tuba -- 2014 Wisemann 900 CC / 2013 Mack 410 MP: Blokepiece Symphony American Shank and 33.2 #2 Rim
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