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Thread: Valve and slide maintenance

  1. Valve and slide maintenance

    Whilst cleaning my horn. I've noticed black 'stuff' and 'red' stuff appearing on my slides and valves. Any insight to what it may be?

  2. Slides
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  3. #3
    I'm using my phone right now, and on it I don't see red. However the black looks like the normal stuff you may see on slides as they "wear in" with use. How new is the horn? You often see more of that on new horns because the parts are creating a good fit. In any case, you should take the sides out now and then, wore them clean, and re-lube them. Usually that dark stuff will show up less often after you have gone through many cycles of the care I described.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
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    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  4. The horn is almost a year old. The black stuff doesn't go away when I wipe/gently scrub them after I soak the slide in soap water for a few hours. This same "stuff" shows up in the port holes on the valves too. Just wondering what it may be.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368
    Could be just some form of oxidation. Seems to be a chemical result since it doesn't wash off.

    How often do you clean/flush the horn? That might have something to do with it.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. I had that black on my Chinese imports - both BMB and Wessex. I found it on the brass rotors of the Wessex cimbasso and it was pretty crusty as well.

    On the Cimb'o it was causing the valve spindles to bind. It seems to appear on brass and I did not find it on the nickel slides of the Mack Euph or the Cimbasso tuning slides. Not sure why not. I had to use an abrasive - Brasso - to get through it. Then removing the oil based Brasso was also an ordeal.

    One thing that does come to mind is residue from Silica Carbide lapping compound that somehow was not totally cleaned from the horn. It is black and is rather greasy. But it was caked on pretty hard, not just a little greasy mud. If you visit the Wessex web site, there are photos from the Chinese factory. One shows a workman lapping the rotary valves on a polished and finished BBb tuba. It seemed odd to do that when the horn is for all other purposes, finished. I do not see how an effective flushing and cleaning would take place without ruining the mirror finish on the bright silver.

    It took me a lot of work to remove the black and it is returning on the BMB brass tuning slides after a year. So the problem has not been removed yet.
    The Wessex rotarys seemed to be good now after one cleaning.

    My first impression was that the Chinese have not yet understood how important final cleaning is and what solvents are needed to remove lapping compound and also what is needed to neutralize corrosion. Those things are not usually caught in a visual or play inspection at the factory.

    I can also imagine residue from soldering flux, rehydrating and working on vulnerable brass slides. When I solder, I usually neutralize with a baking soda slurry. Then flush and flush and flush.

    It would be interesting to learn how older factories in Europe and the US, that are steeped in tradition, deal with the issue of corrosives before they send a horn out to a customer. Soldering and lapping are standard and necessary processes, but cleanup is important and critical to the quality of workmanship.
    Last edited by paulmaybery; 03-24-2015 at 07:21 PM.
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

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