1978 Besson New Standard -- Valve Guide Wear / Noise

[davewerden]

Regarding valve noise, is this just annoying to the player, or is it also audible to the audience (I'm not so much talking about when the performer is miked, but in an ordinary un-amplified playing situation)? If it IS audible to the audience, how annoying do you think it is to them?

It depends. In a full concert band setting it is probably not audible to the audience. I never noticed sound like that from a section. However, if you stand up front and do a solo, it might be audible - more likely so if you have hard reflective surfaces near you, and more likely so in a very small hall.

New, well-fitted brass guides are generally not quite as noisy, assuming you keep the valves oiled. When they wear down, the rotation is greater so they can "bang" slightly harder against each side of the slot.

[coolguy684]

Did the nylon screws come large enough to accommodate guide slots that are a little more worn? Also, do they come with the correct 3mm by .5mm thread for old Besson New Standard valves?

[tampaworth]

They come with a hex head which is oversized (allows you to screw them in easily) and had to be trimmed considerably. They might accommodate guide slots twice as wide perhaps. The metric thread fit perfectly as well. The link in this thread is where I bought them from on Ebay (from England). Hope this helps.

[coolguy684]

They come with a hex head which is oversized (allows you to screw them in easily) and had to be trimmed considerably. They might accommodate guide slots twice as wide perhaps. The metric thread fit perfectly as well. The link in this thread is where I bought them from on Ebay (from England). Hope this helps.

How tough are they to cut? Would a candle heated exacto knife be suitable, plus one of those filing boards (forgot the name) for fine adjustment?

[tampaworth]

I used a candle (flame) heated box cutter. An exacto knife would be better. This is for the width (ie guide slot width). Seemed to work well. The real challenge is the height of the guide. The stock hex heads are rather high and require a decent amount of flattening to accommodate the slot. Emery boards would be the slow boat. A non-coarse Dremel worked carefully may work well. My rotary pedicure stone deal is sort of what I had at the time. It's a fun project with a great outcome!

[coolguy684]

How come you can't cut it height wise also? As long as it doesn't stick up higher than the valve felt isn't it fine?

[ghmerrill]

Are you sure these are metric? Both Allied and Ferree's sell metal guides that are 3-48 threads. Kraus does list Delrin ones, but their web site for some time has said these are "not currently available".

What's the actual thread size?

[coolguy684]

Not sure about metric or any other name, but 3mm by .5mm is for the 967 Sovereign I brought in to Dillons. Thats what I was told by Matt Walters.

[tampaworth]

I don't know the thread size, but they fit my NS perfectly and the EBay listing states "small nylon hex head screw for replacing the noisy metal guides on old Besson / Boosey & Hawkes Euphoniums and Tubas." The thread size is not posted on the listing. Perhaps you can query the seller for the info. He seems to sell a lot of other stuff geared for British instruments and should know. As far as cutting it heightwise -- for me that seemed a bit trickier than grinding it down once in place but YMMV on the technique.

[daniel76309]

I recently made this conversion on my 1971 Besson. For me the hardest part was getting the old guides out. The guide in #1 was already loose, and #2 unscrewed easily. However, #3 fought me all the way out, and #4 was totally stuck. I broke the top off of the old #4 tacquet and ended up having to drill out the old one, which was a little stressful (no going back now!). Once the new screws were in it seemed as if I had to file/cut most of the screw head off to get it to fit the slot, but in the end, it works great and the valves are nice and smooth and quiet. I'm glad I got an extra set of nylon screws just in case. I bought 8, but they actually sent 10, so I should be set for life.