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Thread: Miraphone 5050 (2nd valve issue) Possibly Valve guide

  1. Quote Originally Posted by tonewheeler View Post
    In the meantime, I'm considering switching back to Blue Juice valve oil (my idea not his). I heard that Blue Juice keeps the valves cleaner. Myth or fact?
    I've switched back-and-forth between Blue Juice and Yamaha Synthetic several times over the years. While I occasionally get a waxy buildup around the valve ports and in the bottom caps when I'm using Yamaha Synthetic, I've never had them when I've used Blue Juice.

    On the other hand, with Blue Juice, I find I need to oil my valves every 3rd or 4th day; with Yamaha Synthetic, I only need to oil them every second or third week, and have occasionally gone over a month between oilings without experiencing a noticeable degradation in valve performance.

    So it is true that my valves are cleaner when I use Blue Juice: but only because I have to oil--and therefore, clean--them much more frequently with Blue Juice.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
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    375

    Was Valve Guides---now valve oil

    I orginally went with Hetman's (it came with my 5050) and then switched to Ultra Pure a few months later after I discovered the "green gunk" issue. I couldn't get the repairman to weigh in on the whole valve oil issue or make a recommendation (and he sells everything but Ultra Pure). He said it's "subjective" to the player and instrument. I've just switched to Blue Juice for now and well see if that helps.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by tonewheeler View Post
    I orginally went with Hetman's (it came with my 5050) and then switched to Ultra Pure a few months later after I discovered the "green gunk" issue. I couldn't get the repairman to weigh in on the whole valve oil issue or make a recommendation (and he sells everything but Ultra Pure). He said it's "subjective" to the player and instrument. I've just switched to Blue Juice for now and well see if that helps.
    OK now that's interesting. I had the same kind of problem with my BE2056 and ultra pure. It worked great for a few months, but started sticking more and more. My repairman found that the problem was the valve guide, so we filed it down a little but the problem recurred after a while. We had the theory that the ultra pure valve oil was reacting with the plastic that the valve guides were made of, causing them to soften and swell. I switched to the Yamaha stuff and after a few days the problem went away and never came back. The gentleman who makes ultra pure said he'd never heard of such a thing... but there was some pretty strong circumstantial evidence.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbocaner View Post
    My repairman found that the problem was the valve guide, so we filed it down a little but the problem recurred after a while. We had the theory that the ultra pure valve oil was reacting with the plastic that the valve guides were made of, causing them to soften and swell. .
    This entire discussion of having to purchase new valve guides and then turn around and modify them is a bit disturbing. I would think that when you purchase a Miraphone or whatever brand nylon valve guide it would fit perfectly? Maybe that's the industry standard. Also, non of the guides on my 5050 have had any issues with malformation or "mushrooming". I just think the tolerances are tight and that I'm going to have to be diligent with cleaning the valves and the guide channel. Noteably, I never had that issue with old Yam 321.

    Also, looking back now and wondering about the the valve oil issue, I did observe a film on the valves with the ultra pure. I'm not going to read much into it at this point. I'll just switch oil for a while and see if that helps.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,223
    Dan,

    Please keep us up to date on this issue. Hopefully more cleaning and switching oils will be the remedy. If all else fails I'll trade you my horn straight up (Yammy 641) as my 2nd valve works great.
    Last edited by RickF; 10-19-2012 at 03:31 PM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
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  6. #26
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    Dec 2010
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    San Diego, California
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    Will do!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
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    805
    Dan,
    I had the same issue with valve guides for my old Willson. They had to be filed down to fit into the channel. I took great care to ensure that no filing dust ever got into the casing or the channel.

    The Miraphone guides follow the same pattern, so it will be a matter of time and patience if I decide to replace any of them.

    I am coming around to the conclusion that it's just some schmutz in the casing that's causing my issues.

    PS--slide pixx coming.

  8. #28
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    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
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    375
    One month later and the 2nd valves are working flawlessly. It turned out that there was some "gunk" or debris in the 2nd valve guide/casing I had missed. I have attributed this problem to the tight tolerances of the valve guide and slot inside the casing. I also switched back from Ultra-Pure valve oil to Blue Juice and the problem has not reoccurred since.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    375
    Another update: Since switching to Blue Juice, I no longer have the leaking problem from the bottom ports on my my valves. I ordered a water catcher, but now it now seems unnecessary. I'm attributing the change to the switch in valve oils.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by tonewheeler View Post
    Another update: Since switching to Blue Juice, I no longer have the leaking problem from the bottom ports on my my valves. I ordered a water catcher, but now it now seems unnecessary. I'm attributing the change to the switch in valve oils.
    I suspect it's seasonal, i.e., due to the lower relative humidity in winter vs. summer/fall, rather than due to any inherent property of Blue Juice. Lower relative humidity means the atmosphere absorbs more of the water vapor in your breath, so there's less moisture available to condense and leak out of the bottom of the valves.

    I know I always dump a lot less water in winter than in other seasons of the year.

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