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Thread: Miraphone 5050 (2nd valve issue) Possibly Valve guide

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Indianapolis area
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    854
    Quote Originally Posted by djwpe View Post
    Jim- I doubt you bent anything. This horn is built like a tank. The first valve sticks on both of mine, the new one more than the older one. I think it's mostly just the very tight tolerances of the valves, combined with dirt. The guides are easy to replace; unscrew the valve stem from the body, and worry the guide out of the body by moving it up and down. Press the new one in. Done.

    The loupe is not an engineer's tool. It's left over from my late wife, the photographer.
    Thanks for the info, Don.
    The reason I thought I might have bent something is that the first valve won't spin very easily if I take it partway out and try to spin it in the casing.

    The other three spin very easily. But--as you say--that could be a buildup of dirt somewhere, so I'll do a cleaning this week and see what happens.

    Are the nylon guides SO sensitive that they become splayed just by a VERY LIGHT touch against the casing while attempting to put the valve back?

    Finally...I was able to replace the guide, but the replacement was too long; I'll have to file it down later. So for now, until I am certain what's up with the first valve, I'm back to the original guide. Assuming normal, almost-daily use, how long should a nylon guide last? I've had my 5050 a bit over two years, and my finger technique is not such that I make the valve try to do unnatural things. When rotating the finger buttons, the first valve seems to have the most play, but not much. The second has less play, and the third has less yet. I assume that's normal.

    Thanks...
    Jim
    Last edited by davewerden; 10-19-2012 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Removed extra quotation.

  2. #12
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by djwpe View Post
    Jim- I doubt you bent anything. This horn is built like a tank. The first valve sticks on both of mine, the new one more than the older one. I think it's mostly just the very tight tolerances of the valves, combined with dirt. The guides are easy to replace; unscrew the valve stem from the body, and worry the guide out of the body by moving it up and down. Press the new one in. Done.

    The loupe is not an engineer's tool. It's left over from my late wife, the photographer.
    Thanks for the info, Don.
    The reason I thought I might have bent something is that the first valve won't spin very easily if I take it partway out and try to spin it in the casing.

    The other three spin very easily. But--as you say--there could be a buildup of dirt somewhere in the first valve, so I'll do a cleaning this week and see what happens.

    Are the nylon guides SO sensitive that they become splayed just by a VERY LIGHT touch against the casing while attempting to put the valve back?

    Finally...I was able to replace the guide, but the replacement was too long; I'll have to file it down later. So for now, until I am certain what's up with the first valve, I'm back to the original guide. Assuming normal, almost-daily use, how long should a nylon guide last? I've had my 5050 a bit over two years, and my finger technique is not such that I make the valve try to do unnatural things. When rotating the finger buttons, the first valve seems to have the most play, but not much. The second has less play, and the third has less yet. I assume that's normal.

    Thanks...
    Jim

  3. #13
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    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
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    384
    Where did you order your valve guides from?

  4. #14
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonewheeler View Post
    Where did you order your valve guides from?
    Hornguys in California. Prices are reasonable, service was superb.

  5. #15
    Jim;

    None of my valves spin easily. As for how long the guides last, I have no idea. They don't seem to wear much.

  6. #16
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    San Diego, California
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    None of my valves have ever spinned easily either.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
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    854
    Another 5050 oddity as long as we're discussing them...My 5050 came with a tuning slide that was too long, so the horn played flat across the board. I liked the sound so much, though, that I was willing to ask Dan Schultz to work some magic on the slide and the tubing that accepts the slide to bring the pitch up.
    But: I also sent Miraphone an email (in German) outlining the situation, and received a quick answer that they had a shorter slide available, so they must have been aware of the issue. I also mentioned it to the vendor from which I bought the horn. In any case, within a few days, the shorter slide arrived via FedEx.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis area
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    854
    Well...as to the valves, it sounds as if it's time for another cleanout...I'd think, though, that all the gunk would be washed away after two years that included at least two or three trips to the bathtub and other conscientious euphonium hygiene. One of the baths was intended to remove the Hetman synthetic oil that left copious amounts of green slime in the valves. Now that I am "de-hetmanned," there is virtually no green slime in the valves or mouthpipe.
    Last edited by Snorlax; 10-15-2012 at 09:21 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    384
    Received the horn back this afternoon. We did not do a lapping at this point. Jim (my repairman) took a closer look at the 2nd valve and discovered some build up along the outside edge of the ports of the valve that I had missed. He gave it a thorough cleaning and it seems to work fine now. I just got back from band practice and it played flawlessly.

    In the meantime, I'm considering switching back to Blue Juice valve oil (my idea not his). I heard that Blue Juice keeps the valves cleaner. Myth or fact?

    I'll keep everyone posted on the valve.

    Thanks again for all the great suggestions.

    Dan

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tonewheeler View Post
    In the meantime, I'm considering switching back to Blue Juice valve oil (my idea not his). I heard that Blue Juice keeps the valves cleaner. Myth or fact?
    It says so on the bottle, so it has to be true, right? Regardless, I'm a huge fan of Blue Juice. First, it seems a little more "slippery" than others I have used. Our brass group was rehearsing last weekend and the first trumpet player had a valve he could not get to work. One of us loaned him some Blue Juice and it started working! That was probably only a temporary fix - the valve probably needs a good cleaning - but it worked!

    I notice less residue than when I used Al Cass. Otherwise, it is hard to say if it does or does not help keep the valves clean based on just using it. All I can say for sure is that Blue Juice is the best oil I've ever used, and I've been using valve oil for a lot of years! (Maybe I should open a franchise!)
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
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