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Thread: Double tonguing and triple tonguing

  1. Double tonguing and triple tonguing

    Hi all,

    I seem to have trouble consistently holding a double tongue and triple tongue on the horn. I can pronounce the syllables just fine off the horn to a decent speed (120-130 BPM), but once I go to the horn (at any speed) I just fall flat and fail miserably. How can I improve this?


  2. Double tonguing and triple tonguing

    What syllables are you using? Sometimes different people are better on different syllables. If I were you, I would try some different ones out. For practicing double and triple tonging, you could try some of the exercises in the Arban book if you have one. If this does not occur with single tonging, then you should practice single tonging with the syllable that you are using with the back of your tongue. This could help you keep the double tonging up. Good luck with your studies.


  3. Double tonguing and triple tonguing

    I am using ta-ka and ta-ta-ka. Any other syllables you recomend for me to try? And yes, I do have an Arbans, and I'm working (SLOWLY) on perfecting those, but it's proving difficult.


  4. #4

    Double tonguing and triple tonguing

    There is, of course, a difference between pronouncing the sounds and playing them into your horn. When playing, keep the rear of your tongue down as much as you can (to let more air through). That should help the tone quality.

    Also, you can be fairly "brutal" when pronouncing these two sounds and still be able to say/sing them. But you may need to lighten up somewhat for playing. Try to keep the motion minimal, which will help you get to a faster speed as you practice.

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
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  5. #5

    Double tonguing and triple tonguing

    What helped me is I practiced the "Ka" on its own. I would take the arban articulation studies and just Ka it. I would practice it slowly to get the desired sound and articulation then I sped it up. When I learned how to multiple tongue I also had a professional teacher guide me through the technique. I would highly recommend to ask your tutor about it if you have one. If you dont I would highly recommend to get one. Good luck!
    James Long
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  6. #6

    Double tonguing and triple tonguing

    Originally posted by: euper101 What helped me is I practiced the "Ka" on its own. I would take the arban articulation studies and just Ka it. I would practice it slowly to get the desired sound and articulation then I sped it up. When I learned how to multiple tongue I also had a professional teacher guide me through the technique. I would highly recommend to ask your tutor about it if you have one. If you dont I would highly recommend to get one. Good luck!
    Spot on. In the new Arban's, edited by both Brian Bowman and Joe Alessi, they both mention this technique with strictly the "ka" sound. It sounds like a train wreck at first, but it gets better.

    Also key to clean multiple-tonguing is, oddly enough, a fast, clean single tongue. They recommend practicing those same exercises at a fast, controlled, single-tongue and then break into the "ka" exercise, and then after that, to slowly work on the multiple tongue itself, whether double or triple.

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  7. Double tonguing and triple tonguing

    For other syllables to use, I would make sure your teacher (if you have one) is okay with them, as some teachers are adamant on certain syllables. Some you can try are: tu-ku, ti-ki, du-gu, da-ga, and di-gi. (Be careful with the d ones though, they are least recommended and are said to have problems) Also, with the triple tonging, some situations might make ta-ka-ta easier than ta-ta-ka. Another way of triple tonging is to do tu-ku-tah. This way of triple tonging makes it seems as if your tongue is rolling and flowing. The point of this one is, to me, to have the last syllable make your tongue be a little farther forward than the first syllable. Well, I think is the advice I have on syllables. Good luck in your studies!


  8. Does anyone know if all the tu,ta,ka ect. articulations were changed at all when the Arban was published in English? I'm no expert (in the Euphonium, or French), but I would expect those tu's and ta's would sound different pronounced by a Frenchman. I'm probably splitting hairs and all the above advice seems great, but if there are any French forum members it would be good to hear their take on things.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PigLord View Post
    (Be careful with the d ones though, they are least recommended and are said to have problems)
    Yes, a major problem, actually: when you use syllables starting with d or g, the vocal folds constrict the airstream. Some people might be able to use those syllables successfully, but why make things harder?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by jsmn4vu View Post
    Yes, a major problem, actually: when you use syllables starting with d or g, the vocal folds constrict the airstream. Some people might be able to use those syllables successfully, but why make things harder?
    um...the vocal folds shouldn't be involved. If the syllables are being vocalized, there's more of a problem than simply speed. Now, the tongue might be blocking some of the airstream, but not the vocal folds.
    I find using d and g is much quicker for me, at least on tuba. It also sounds less harsh.
    There is a French Arban's on line somewhere, now to find it...

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