New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

[EuphoniumMenace]

I purchased a new Besson 2052 Prestige euphonium from Dillons about a month ago, and the trigger is unuseable. The problem is that the spring -- the end of the tine towards the outside of the instrument -- keeps popping off. Unfortunately the only local shop that is a localized Besson dealer says that they only sell it, they don't do warranty repairs.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Also, I would appreciate it if any of you who own this instrument would take a look at your trigger's spring. I want to know if mine was installed incorrectly at the factory. On my instrument, on the inside the spring's tine is straight -- not curved -- and lies against the outside of the screw -- it is not wrapped around the screw. On the outside edge of the instrument the tine is curved AWAY from the screw rather than around it. It lies in the small groove (the screw is almost all of the way in) between the screw and the outside of the instrument. It is here that it keeps popping off. Is this how yours looks, or are your two spring tines wrapped around and under each screw (which would seems like the logical way to me)?

Also, IF I can get Dillon's to take back my instrument then do you have an opinion about which other professional euphonium equipped with a standard trigger (i.e. Sterling, Adams, Miraphone) has a better build quality than the apparently very POOR build quality of a Besson? It's really too bad because I am otherwise thrilled with the way the instrument sounds and responds.

[coolguy684]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

wait if Steve Mead really does sign off on every sov and prestige that comes out of the factory, how can there be problems like this? you'd think QC would be 99% if this really was what happened.....but then again this is something that trigger issue might not get noticed at the factory during an only 15-20 min test.

[tonewheeler]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

I have the 5050 with the tuning trigger, and honestly, I wish I didn't have it. It does not spring back all the way to the neutral position. For me, its another piece of eliquoent engineering I don't need.

[davewerden]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

Originally posted by: tonewheeler I have the 5050 with the tuning trigger, and honestly, I wish I didn't have it. It does not spring back all the way to the neutral position.

First, it is always a good principle to not have extra "stuff" if you don't need it. Maybe I learned that from my Grandpa. He always bought the lower models of cars, like a Chevy Biscayne instead of the Impala - less to break!

However, I found with my trigger on the Sterling that "conventional" lubricants didn't work well (oil). I used trombone slide cream and it made it smooth and dependable. (I also lubed the pivot points, but that was mostly for quietness and there I used synthetic oil.)

What do use to lube the slide?

[EuphoniumMenace]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

For me the trigger is not extraneous, it is one of the reasons I bought this specific instrument. I love the Besson sound, but as you yourself have commented the 6th partials on this horn are very sharp. The trigger really helps me to keep in tune -- especially above the staff bass cleft Eb through G and high Bb, also I use 1/2 trigger on F through G in the staff. And high Eb (like last note in Pantomime) seems to center better with the trigger. Maybe if I was a better player I would be able to lip it down all the way, but for me I find it centers better and the tone is fuller using the trigger compared with lipping it down.

I use Hetman's #5 oil (a couple of people on your website including Pat Stuckemeyer recommended it).

The trigger works GREAT as long as the spring is positioned Ok, the problem is that it keeps jumping out. I believe that it was put in incorrectly at the factory. The way it is positioned between tubing I don't feel comfortable messing with it myself. I am trying to work with Dillon Music to see what Besson will cover (i.e. if they will cover shipping, which I doubt) as the FedEx charge for shipping to Dillon Music if I fully insure it is $200 one way!

I am hoping that someone else with a properly functioning Besson 2052 (or 2051) can describe what the end tines of their trigger spring looks like -- or better yet post a picture.

[tonewheeler]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

Dave, I just bought some trombone slide cream and will give it a shot after I strip it down and clean off all the other stuff I've tried.

As for following "grandpas" advice, I agree, and I usuall follow that motto when it comes to music gear. However, this is how the horn came when I bought it.

Since I joined, I've followed many of the "sharp partial" discussions, and I guess lipping it down works good for me on the 5050.

[highpitch]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

If you have no joy with Dillons, contact Dan Oberloh and see if he can help:

www.oberloh.com

Dennis

[davewerden]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

Originally posted by: EuphoniumMenace I am hoping that someone else with a properly functioning Besson 2052 (or 2051) can describe what the end tines of their trigger spring looks like -- or better yet post a picture.

The dealer is your first line of defense, so if that is not working out, then it's time to use modern technology! (Well, technically, using this forum already qualifies.)

If it were me, I might try to get a number of good digital photos of the mechanism. Then I would send them to Steve Mead. First, I'm sure he could identify immediately if the assembly is arranged incorrectly. And second, if there is a problem in production, I am sure he would like to know about it.

[djwpe]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

Have you tried calling Buffet Crampon USA in Jacksonville, FL? They have regional managers who travel to the various dealers (I play in a german band with the northeast rep).

The number for the Jacksonville office is 904-821-0234.



Good luck.



Don Winston

[EuphoniumMenace]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

After many phone calls and emails Besson did send me a UPS call tag to ship my instrument back to Dillons for repair. Matt Walters has obtained extra trigger springs in case the problem is a defective spring. So far it looks like both Dillons and Besson are going to stand by their product! I will let you know how the instrument is performing once I get it back.

I really appreciate everyone who took time to respond on this forum.

[Eupher6]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

It seems, after reviewing this thread, that the response time from Dillons isn't the best. The OP dates from 5/23 and it's been 3 weeks since then.

Dillons has a pretty good reputation for their work, sales and service, so I'm wondering just why it's taken so long for the OP to get some sort of positive assurance from them.

One of the reasons I opted not to buy a Besson at the time I bought my Sterling was shoddy customer relations from Besson. I'd played Bessons for decades and love the sound, but with the problems they'd had with quality from that "awful" period and the absolutely dismal customer service support here in the States since that time (not much better, even after Buffet-Crampon's takeover), well, it didn't take much convincing for me to move elsewhere.

No real point to this post -- just an observation that this matter should not have taken 3 weeks to figure out a plan. The horn, as I understand it, still needs the work so the issue isn't fully resolved yet.

Time ticks on...

[EuphoniumMenace]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

Received my instrument back from Dillons yesterday. So far so good. Plays like a dream. The spring is definitely positioned differently than before.

To be fair to Dillons and to Besson I do want to clarify what happened. Matt Walters at Dillon was willing to do the repair from the start -- without even involving Besson's warranty. He said that any instrument he sells will be serviced within 48 hours. And Besson was always willing to warrant the product. The big issue was that the cost to me as an individual (vs. a business) to ship and fully insure it would have been ridiculous (about $200 each way). So it took several weeks to work things out with Besson with regards to shipping.

Once I DID ship it Matt Walters at Dillons he repaired it and shipped it back out within 24 hours.

I will let you know if there are any more problems, but at this time I am now satisfied with the outcome and consider the case closed.

[daruby]

New Besson Trigger Problem -- HELP!

Matt Walters is one of the finest repair technicians anywhere in the world. My experience is that if he says it is fixed...it is fixed.

Doug

[tokuno]

Biscayne!

Hey! I learned to drive in a 65 Biscayne. Straight six with enough room in that huge engine compartment for my Dad to climb in beside the engine to perform maintenance. Clipping a clothespin on the butterfly valve inside the air filter for mountain driving. Pounding palms against that over-sized, rock-hard steering wheel while parallel parking (no power-assist = upper-body workout). Bent steel dashboard - perfect for catching the forehead of the front, middle-seat passenger, since of course the car came with only two seatbelts (one each for the front driver and passenger), the hideaway gas tank behind the rear license plate, and the ability to pull the key out of the ignition while driving down the road - great practical joke: "Oh, no! the key came out, so I can't steer!"
. . . just to brake-check the nostalgia a bit, I also remember Dad pulling the engine for a rebuild at around 60K . . .
I attended a car show a few years ago, and the distinctive note of a starter motor whipped my head around - yep, dude was turning over a Biscayne.
Good times! Thanks for prompting the walk down memory lane, Dave!

First, it is always a good principle to not have extra "stuff" if you don't need it. Maybe I learned that from my Grandpa. He always bought the lower models of cars, like a Chevy Biscayne instead of the Impala - less to break!

However, I found with my trigger on the Sterling that "conventional" lubricants didn't work well (oil). I used trombone slide cream and it made it smooth and dependable. (I also lubed the pivot points, but that was mostly for quietness and there I used synthetic oil.)

What do use to lube the slide?

[scubaeuph]

OK, after reading this post- and before throwing brands and dealers under the bus, lets consider where you bought your horn. That company is responsible for customer service, and shipping (if the situation warrants it at their discretion, to their location). It is the retailers responsibility to contact the manufacturer if indeed they think there is a manufacturing problem to obtain an RA. If it is approved, the instrument is shipped to the manufacturer by the dealer at the dealers cost, problem evaluated and solution, then shipped back to the dealer (or end user) at the manufacturers cost. I know first hand that a manufacturer is not going to process anything if they do not have an authorized RA in hand, therefore, no RA. Besson is not shipping anything, not their fault, just business. Now, if you buy a car from a dealer, you don't contact the factory for service do you? Matt Walters at Dillon's is one of the best, but because you cannot buy locally, shipping for the end user complicates things, especially if they are out of state. Having a good local brass shop and repairman should be on everyone's top priority list. Why is it that you can only find a handful of dealers that are willing to stock the top euphonium in the world?