Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: 1+2 valves, 10th partial:

  1. #1

    1+2 valves, 10th partial:

    What is it about this combination that makes that note (high B natural) so hard to hit and hold? The 10th partial with any other valve combination (including 3rd valve, the alternative to 1+2) sounds just fine, but with 1+2, it's almost impossible. Grrrr.



    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,283

    1+2 valves, 10th partial:

    That note (high B natural) is notoriously hard on euphonium. Try 2nd valve. That works better for me... but still hard.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    Russian Christmas Music (Alfred Reed)
    El Cumbanchero (Rafael Hernández) cell phone video

  3. #3

    1+2 valves, 10th partial:

    The Miraphone 5050 has quite an easy B-natural played with 2. My Sterling had basically NO B-natural at all.



    Don Winston


  4. #4

    1+2 valves, 10th partial:

    The 9th-partial 2nd-valve B natural is easy enough on mine, as is the 10th-partial 3rd-valve note. The problem with using the second valve is in melodic passages, slurring from a high A. There must be something in throwing a note through all those sharp curves in the combination of valves.



    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  5. #5

    1+2 valves, 10th partial:

    In years of conversations with countless euphonium players, I have distilled a list of two notes that are awful for most people on most horns:

    High B natural (concert)
    High D (concert)

    During ITEC 2010 we did a premier of a piece with 5 euphoniumist. In a conversation on "my" end of the row, Brian Bowman, Steven Mead, Neal Corwell and I all agreed that both were bad notes. (John Mueller was out of conversational range, so we didn't poll his opinion)

    The D seems to be generally the harder of the 2 to play in tune with dependable centering. But because the B comes up more often, I'd rate it as the worst problem note for most players.

    My old Sterling was actually pretty good on the B, unlike what djwpe experienced. I'm still getting used to some areas of the Adams, but the B doesn't seem quite as easy as the Sterling's was. Here is a recording that goes up to a high B a couple times. It was the first solo I ever tried in public on the Adams, so I didn't have a good center on all notes yet (I was still fighting it a bit). But the high B came out pretty well.

    Ave Maria

    I can't recall where I got the next story; for now let's say it was Arnold Jacobs (which I think is correct). So a student asked Jacobs how he plays a particular note in the mid-low register, because the student seemed to struggle every time it came up in music. Jacobs asked him "About how many minutes a day do you spend playing that note?" The student said "About 5." Jacobs said, "There's your problem."

    On both the Sterling and the Adams I now play (or the Besson previously), the high B is not a walk in the park inherently. But I find that as I intentionally incorporate the B in my normal warm-up patterns (which I tend to make up fresh each day), it starts to seem way less difficult after a few weeks.

    No doubt some combination of chops, horn, and mouthpiece make this or other notes more or less easy. But I have not yet seen any reasonable combination of horn and mouthpiece that made it impossible. I would recommend following Jacobs' advice.

    I have found that 2nd valve is the best bet. If you typically practice lip slurs in this range, a slur from 2nd valve A to 2nd valve B will not continue to be a problem. For decades I have relied on 12 for high A in certain contexts (because it is a sharper fingering). I am conformtable playing a slur from G to A with 12 on both, or a slur from A to B with 2 on both. It's all dependent on what you incorporate into your practice.

    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Farmington Hills, MI
    Posts
    288

    1+2 valves, 10th partial:

    I agree that 2nd valve is the way to go on the high b concert. On my Willson 2900 1st and 2nd is very hard to find but 2nd is pretty solid. I also practice it regularly so that helps. Playing the C concert scale in that range is a good way to solidify the note as you have consecutive notes with the same fingering. Sluring the scale is even better.


  7. #7

    1+2 valves, 10th partial:

    Lip slurs . . . playing the note a lot . . . I foresee pain in my future tonight

    I've met Arnold Jacobs. One of my best friends in college (Butler, Indianapolis) was a tubist, and he had occasional lessons with him. One Saturday he picked me up at my home in Elkhart and we went to Chicago for a lesson. He seemed very nice, but then I wasn't a recalcitrant student. He had a TV in the bathroom; I thought that was the height of extravagance.

    I've heard your Ave; you make it sound so easy. I cheat -- I did an accompaniment on Finale, and I took it down a step from G to F. Hey, if David Childs can take "Bumblebee" down from A minor to G minor . . .



    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  8. #8
    Just curious about something -- is the high B natural as nasty on a trombone as it is on a euph? Does anyone who doubles have any intel on this? I don't have access to a 'bone at the present, so I can't try it.
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
    Just curious about something -- is the high B natural as nasty on a trombone as it is on a euph?
    I've played on four trombones over the years, and I don't recall giving the high B a second thought when I wanted to play one. It's a different experience from playing it on a compensating euphonium, for me anyway.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •