1+2 valves, 10th partial:

[DaveBj]

What is it about this combination that makes that note (high B natural) so hard to hit and hold? The 10th partial with any other valve combination (including 3rd valve, the alternative to 1+2) sounds just fine, but with 1+2, it's almost impossible. Grrrr.

[RickF]

1+2 valves, 10th partial:

That note (high B natural) is notoriously hard on euphonium. Try 2nd valve. That works better for me... but still hard.

[djwpe]

1+2 valves, 10th partial:

The Miraphone 5050 has quite an easy B-natural played with 2. My Sterling had basically NO B-natural at all.



Don Winston

[DaveBj]

1+2 valves, 10th partial:

The 9th-partial 2nd-valve B natural is easy enough on mine, as is the 10th-partial 3rd-valve note. The problem with using the second valve is in melodic passages, slurring from a high A. There must be something in throwing a note through all those sharp curves in the combination of valves.

[davewerden]

1+2 valves, 10th partial:

In years of conversations with countless euphonium players, I have distilled a list of two notes that are awful for most people on most horns:

High B natural (concert)
High D (concert)

During ITEC 2010 we did a premier of a piece with 5 euphoniumist. In a conversation on "my" end of the row, Brian Bowman, Steven Mead, Neal Corwell and I all agreed that both were bad notes. (John Mueller was out of conversational range, so we didn't poll his opinion)

The D seems to be generally the harder of the 2 to play in tune with dependable centering. But because the B comes up more often, I'd rate it as the worst problem note for most players.

My old Sterling was actually pretty good on the B, unlike what djwpe experienced. I'm still getting used to some areas of the Adams, but the B doesn't seem quite as easy as the Sterling's was. Here is a recording that goes up to a high B a couple times. It was the first solo I ever tried in public on the Adams, so I didn't have a good center on all notes yet (I was still fighting it a bit). But the high B came out pretty well.

Ave Maria

I can't recall where I got the next story; for now let's say it was Arnold Jacobs (which I think is correct). So a student asked Jacobs how he plays a particular note in the mid-low register, because the student seemed to struggle every time it came up in music. Jacobs asked him "About how many minutes a day do you spend playing that note?" The student said "About 5." Jacobs said, "There's your problem."

On both the Sterling and the Adams I now play (or the Besson previously), the high B is not a walk in the park inherently. But I find that as I intentionally incorporate the B in my normal warm-up patterns (which I tend to make up fresh each day), it starts to seem way less difficult after a few weeks.

No doubt some combination of chops, horn, and mouthpiece make this or other notes more or less easy. But I have not yet seen any reasonable combination of horn and mouthpiece that made it impossible. I would recommend following Jacobs' advice.

I have found that 2nd valve is the best bet. If you typically practice lip slurs in this range, a slur from 2nd valve A to 2nd valve B will not continue to be a problem. For decades I have relied on 12 for high A in certain contexts (because it is a sharper fingering). I am conformtable playing a slur from G to A with 12 on both, or a slur from A to B with 2 on both. It's all dependent on what you incorporate into your practice.

[MichaelSchott]

1+2 valves, 10th partial:

I agree that 2nd valve is the way to go on the high b concert. On my Willson 2900 1st and 2nd is very hard to find but 2nd is pretty solid. I also practice it regularly so that helps. Playing the C concert scale in that range is a good way to solidify the note as you have consecutive notes with the same fingering. Sluring the scale is even better.

[DaveBj]

1+2 valves, 10th partial:

Lip slurs . . . playing the note a lot . . . I foresee pain in my future tonight

I've met Arnold Jacobs. One of my best friends in college (Butler, Indianapolis) was a tubist, and he had occasional lessons with him. One Saturday he picked me up at my home in Elkhart and we went to Chicago for a lesson. He seemed very nice, but then I wasn't a recalcitrant student. He had a TV in the bathroom; I thought that was the height of extravagance.

I've heard your Ave; you make it sound so easy. I cheat -- I did an accompaniment on Finale, and I took it down a step from G to F. Hey, if David Childs can take "Bumblebee" down from A minor to G minor . . .

[DaveBj]

Just curious about something -- is the high B natural as nasty on a trombone as it is on a euph? Does anyone who doubles have any intel on this? I don't have access to a 'bone at the present, so I can't try it.

[davewerden]

Just curious about something -- is the high B natural as nasty on a trombone as it is on a euph?

I've played on four trombones over the years, and I don't recall giving the high B a second thought when I wanted to play one. It's a different experience from playing it on a compensating euphonium, for me anyway.