Yamaha 842S vs. Besson 2052

[xctfeuph]

Okay, so, I am a college freshman studying music education and euphonium performance at Northwestern University. I would say that I am pretty serious about performing, and I really want to get the best possible equipment. I am buying a compensating horn for the first time, and Woodwind Brasswind is letting me borrow three horns for a few days to try them out. The horns I have are a Wilson 2900, a Besson 2052, and a Yamaha 842S. I think I have pretty much decided against the Wilson, because I seem to be able to get a better sound out of the other two horns and I have been having some pretty severe tuning problems with the Wilson (A3 is about 40 cents flat for whatever reason). I can't tell a huge difference between the sound I'm getting out of the Besson and the Yamaha, but I've been pretty sure that I like the Yamaha because it is a lot easier for me to hold and the plastic sheild on the Besson is really annoying when I try to play standing up. I have also found the intonation on the Yamaha to be excellent for the most part (low B seems to be rather sharp, but it's easy to lip it down). The only reason that I'm hesitant to go with the Yamaha is that several other euphonium players I know were very suprised that I liked that horn and strongly advised me to go with the Besson. They were of the opinion that it sounded much better then the Yamaha. Does anyone here have any opinions about these two horns? This is a really big investment for me and I just want to make sure that I am making the best purchase possible, because I'm probably not going to have the funds to get another horn like this for a very long while (if ever). Thanks so much for your help!

[xctfeuph]

Basically, I would just really like to know any issues that people have with the Yamaha horn, because I really don't want to end up with an inferior horn. Also, what do people think about how nessicary tuning triggers are? I'm not sure if not having one on the Yamaha is going to be a deal-breaker or if I will just learn how to bend trouble pitches into tune on the new horn. Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really trying to do this right.

[pam]

What does your primary instructor--who, presumably, has more experience than your fellow students and has a better understanding of your strengths and weaknesses as a player, think?

Originally posted by: xctfeuph

I can't tell a huge difference between the sound I'm getting out of the Besson and the Yamaha, but I've been pretty sure that I like the Yamaha because it is a lot easier for me to hold and the plastic sheild on the Besson is really annoying when I try to play standing up. I have also found the intonation on the Yamaha to be excellent for the most part (low B seems to be rather sharp, but it's easy to lip it down). The only reason that I'm hesitant to go with the Yamaha is that several other euphonium players I know were very suprised that I liked that horn and strongly advised me to go with the Besson. They were of the opinion that it sounded much better then the Yamaha.

Did they listen to you play both horns back to back blind (they didn't know and couldn't see which horn you played first) or double blind (neither you nor they knew the order in which you played the horns), or were they "listening" primarily with their eyes rather than only with their ears?

[davewerden]

It seems to me, as I observe conversations going by, that people who own either Yamaha 642/641 or the new Bessons (like the 2052) are happy with them. I don't hear from as many who own the 842, but I have to think they are also a happy lot overall. So I don't think there is much potential that you are going to feel later as though you bought a "dog."

Almost all the Yamaha users are not using a trigger. I personally would rather have a trigger if I were playing Yamaha, but that's just me, perhaps. Besson 2052 players are almost always using triggers. So between a non-triggered Yamaha and a triggered Besson, you would have an easier time playing in tune on the Besson. That doesn't mean you could not play the Yamaha in tune, but it would be more work to do so.

If you have a chance, try the Adams. It's a lot easier to play in tune than the Yamaha, assuming no trigger on either. Check the intonation charts here: Euphonium Intonation They are not complete, because I haven't had intimate time with the newer Bessons, for example, or the Miraphone 5050. (These tests take quite a while to make sure the results are dependable.)

You might also want to check this article: Choosing a Euphonium. Pay special attention to the part that talks about judging tone. I can't stress enough how important it is to get into a large room before you decide about tone.

We all have different ideas about what horn is best. One of the things I like about the Adams is that it's the most comfortable horn to hold of all the ones I have ever played. But that doesn't mean it will be for you. If the Yamaha is more comfortable to hold than the Besson, that is not a trivial consideration!

Tone is also somewhat personal. THEY may think the Besson sounds better, but YOU may like the Yamaha. And you might be right. But I'd still ask your listeners what exactly they like better about the Besson. Play things of different styles and especially different dynamics. Get specific feedback and try to hear what they mean. Maybe they will change your mind; maybe not.

Other contenders are the Sterling and Miraphone. The latter is available from Brasswind, I think, but not the Sterling. Custom Music could send you a Sterling to try (or you could even drive there, given your location), but it might be impossible for you to coordinate the trials so you could compare all the horns in real time! For that, it is best to get to a big ITEA conference. If you were going to Linz in June for the ITEC you'd be in much better shape, because you could try all the best horns in the space of the same day. But if that's not in the cards, then it sounds like you are doing the best you can.

[tonewheeler]

Dave's right about the low prospects of getting a "dog" with either brand your thinking about. Since you have the ability to try all three horns right now, I would spend time with each and figure out which sounds good to you AND is comfortable to play, unless you have the ability to fly to Linz in June for the most ideal situation.

Also, there are a lot of good quality used horns out there right now for sale.

Don't get sucked into "analysis paralysis" either.

Just a thought.

[Thanamaeth]

Originally posted by: xctfeuph Okay, so, I am a college freshman studying music education and euphonium performance at Northwestern University. I would say that I am pretty serious about performing, and I really want to get the best possible equipment. I am buying a compensating horn for the first time, and Woodwind Brasswind is letting me borrow three horns for a few days to try them out. The horns I have are a Wilson 2900, a Besson 2052, and a Yamaha 842S. I think I have pretty much decided against the Wilson, because I seem to be able to get a better sound out of the other two horns and I have been having some pretty severe tuning problems with the Wilson (A3 is about 40 cents flat for whatever reason). I can't tell a huge difference between the sound I'm getting out of the Besson and the Yamaha, but I've been pretty sure that I like the Yamaha because it is a lot easier for me to hold and the plastic sheild on the Besson is really annoying when I try to play standing up. I have also found the intonation on the Yamaha to be excellent for the most part (low B seems to be rather sharp, but it's easy to lip it down). The only reason that I'm hesitant to go with the Yamaha is that several other euphonium players I know were very suprised that I liked that horn and strongly advised me to go with the Besson. They were of the opinion that it sounded much better then the Yamaha. Does anyone here have any opinions about these two horns? This is a really big investment for me and I just want to make sure that I am making the best purchase possible, because I'm probably not going to have the funds to get another horn like this for a very long while (if ever). Thanks so much for your help!

Have you tried YEP -642SII Neo? I recently purchased this horn but I have some problem with it and yamaha Thailand offers me to make an upgrade to 842s (it's some money to spend) which I am trying to have them change me a new Neo, so, if you have played on the Neo before may be you could tell me the difference you get from these two horns,

thank you.

[abbott456]

Also dont forget about Kanstul Euphs they may not be at the top of many lists but imo they are very similar in playing responce and sound (with the right bell) to a old Besson New Standard or Boosey Imperial but with 90% less quirks! I also played on a old Besson New Stardard for a year or two and the Kanstul was a great match for me. I chose it over a Willson 2900 that I also was thinking of getting.

I would warn you though that if you are thinking of getting a horn with out a trigger be prepared to lip notes or use alternate valve combos often it might take getting used to but I personally like not having to use a trigger with all the added weight ect. so it works for me.

[davewerden]

Originally posted by: abbott456 Also dont forget about Kanstul Euphs

You'll find the Kanstul on the intonation charts as well.

If such a thing matters to you, Kanstul is the only compensating euphonium I know of that is made in the USA.

[pam]

The Kanstul has a smaller bore than the 842 or 2052, intonation is EXTREMELY squirrely, and the response across registers from horn to horn is very inconsistent.

In that regard, the Air Force Concert Band purchased a set of Kanstul euphs, and disposed of them less than a year later when the players got fed up with fighting the intonation tendencies and struggling to match their sound across registers due to the inconsistent response between the horns.

[Eupher6]

I'll echo pam's sentiments about the Kanstul euph.

I tried one a couple years ago and didn't like it. Intonation didn't appear to be a huge factor, but I did not like the horn's ergonomics, though I don't remember exactly why at this stage.

I did buy a Kanstul tuba and am happy with it, so I'd say Ziggy needs to keep experimenting with the euph. He ain't there yet.