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Thread: Piston valve problem.

  1. Piston valve problem.

    Thanks, by the way I was attempting to clean out of valves and I have tried using plyers and one of the valve caps won't come off!


  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,853

    Piston valve problem.

    Oh my! Pliers are way too much force to use on brass. But... since the pliers didn't work you should take it to a professional brass tech for service. Remember that brass is soft and can be damaged pretty easily.

    I have a small strap wrench that I bought several years ago called the "Zyliss Strong Boy". For awhile it was no longer available, but it's back on the market... and improved some and about 1/2 the original price. It should fit valve caps from trumpet to tuba. Here's a link:

    Zyliss Strong Boy


    oops, I see it's no longer available.
    Here's one still and a real bargain for $4 and actually fits in tighter spaces better. I added some rubber electrical tape on the stainless steel strap portion so it won't scratch. I keep it the trunk of my car along with mpc honing tool in case anyone in band needs it.


    Zyliss Strongboy Jar and Bottle Opener

    Last edited by RickF; 07-10-2016 at 02:45 PM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,853

    Piston valve problem.

    Today I recv'd the new model Zyliss Strongboy strap wrench (or jar opener). Although it will still work, it's a bit bulkier than the original. If you need to loosen your 2nd valve cap there's only a little bit of room to maneuver.

    Here's a picture of the old model (left) next to the new model (right):

    Last edited by RickF; 03-20-2018 at 06:46 PM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  4. #14

    Piston valve problem.

    That's a great little tool, Rick! I just added it to the Instruments->Maintenance section of the Amazon Tuba-Euphonium Store:

    Strong Boy





    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,853

    Piston valve problem.

    Originally posted by: davewerden

    That's a great little tool, Rick! I just added it to the Instruments->Maintenance section of the Amazon Tuba-Euphonium Store:
    Oh good! I looked at the Tuba-Euph store before I linked to Amazon but didn't see it offered. I just went back and edited my post to link to Tuba-euph store.

    Yes, it works pretty well. I had the occasion to use it at our summer band camp at church recently. There was a tuba player who couldn't loosen one of his caps and it worked like a champ.

    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  6. Piston valve problem.

    I just joined this forum today. I play a Bb jmichaels tuba and I also bought it used and it also has the sticking valve problem valve #2 & occasionally 3. I had it professionally cleaned and he switched me over to the Hetman synthetic oil. It helped a little but if I'm playing for a while (say an hour or so) it will stick going up. I oil my valves after every practise and wipe them and the bore every couple of weeks and drain the tubes after every practise as well but it still happens. I also wanted to ask about that valve cap tool. How tight are these caps supposed to be that you would need a tool like that to remove them? I'm starting to think that maybe I don't tighten them tight enough


  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853

    Piston valve problem.

    Originally posted by: jdnewhorizons

    (snip) I also wanted to ask about that valve cap tool. How tight are these caps supposed to be that you would need a tool like that to remove them? I'm starting to think that maybe*I don't tighten them tight enough
    Welcome to the forum.

    The valve caps should only be finger tight. The only reason someone would need a tool like that would be if for some reason they became too tight after being left for a long time. It's sort of like an oil filter on the car... it should only be tightened by hand, but might need a wrench to get it loose.

    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  8. Piston valve problem.

    before you invest in a strap wrench, invest 5 minutes into greasing your caps and move all parts of your horn daily (or every time you play).

  9. I realize that is an older thread... But I will chime in with a totally different approach to loosening valve caps. Being a tuba player, I have had a life of experience with rotary valves. In our 'little kit,' we carry a small rawhide mallet and a short wooden dowel. The are used when taking apart a rotary valve and also for reseating the back bearing plate. When valve caps are stuck, a few simple taps - holding the dowel on the cap - then strike the dowel with the rawhide mallet - and - "voila." A plastic mallet also works well. The point is that your tools need to be softer than the brass valve cap. When I got my first Miraphone back in 1968, they came with these accessories. This vibration method also works in a pinch to unstick mouthpieces. A little tapping around the receiver usually works. ( But never on the soft tubing without the mp inside.) In a short time I learned that there really is no mystery to taking out rotary valves, cleaning them and replacing them.
    BMB F tuba 445s
    BMB CC (BAT) 865s
    Mack Euphonium 1150s
    Wessex F Cimbasso

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,369
    Quote Originally Posted by paulmaybery View Post
    In a short time I learned that there really is no mystery to taking out rotary valves, cleaning them and replacing them.
    This deviates severely from the "received view" and the omni-present dire warnings against even thinking about doing anything to a rotary valve. Whenever I see those warnings I'm reminded of similar warnings in bicycle repair books I made use of when my children were very young -- though in that case the warnings were about coaster brakes. The universal view was that a mere mortal should not even attempt to service a coaster brake because ... well, it wasn't clear, but it appeared that the fabric of space-time might be ripped apart, or at least that Western civilization might be utterly destroyed.

    However, having a very inexpensive (Husky, I think) bike that needed brake repair, and not really having the funds to devote to paying for that repair, I resorted to the wrenches and the few diagrams and instructions I could find. Surprisingly, space-time and Western civilization appeared to be unaffected, and the surgery was a remarkable success.

    Rotary valves are just the same (probably more so for tuba than for French horn valves, to be honest). There is certain care that needs to be taken, and a few useful tools to be acquired, as Paul mentions. At least this is true for simple cleaning and replacement. For something like tightening up a loose valve bushing, there is a nice tool one can acquire from places like Ferree's, but you won't need anything like that to just do regular diagnosis and maintenance.

    And here are some pretty good instructional and inspirational videos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD9oZjRchno

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFpQ_LyW7XA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4FiyDzwoaA

    The second and third are very adventuresome according to the received view.

    If you would like something in French, try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrA0zRwLz0 .
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

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