New baritone.

[kctrumpeteer]

Hey I just got an awesome deal on an Olds Studio Baritone, and although it was in very good shape I dropped it by the shop to have a once over to get it 'play ready'.

Any good sites for finding out more about the Olds line of Baritone horns? I know that Olds is no longer in existance, but figured that their might be some good sites out there. Most of what I see is on the trumpet/cornet line but not as much on the baritone/euphonium line.

I'm not sure how far I will take the baritone playing as I am a pretty regular trumpet player, but had been wanting to pick one up and found one for a great price.

Originally looking I had a lot of people tell me that I should really consider getting an Euphonium vs the baritone. But also heard that it was more just popularity which I presume changes from time to time. and that a baritone is more like a trumpet in sound vs a euphonium that would be compared more to a Flugelhorn.

[davewerden]

The Olds Studio "Baritone" was very popular when I was in high school. That was in Iowa, and we had very strong music programs in the schools. The top brands (Besson was not a factor in most public school systems yet) were King, Conn, and Olds, with a smattering of Reynolds. They were all very good quality and played similarly, albeit with differences that suited different tastes. Olds had a little darker tone than the King with more of a core than the Conn.

The horn you have is actually a small euphonium. A true baritone has a higher proportion of cylindrical tubing and a smaller bore and bell. Think about tenor trombones that you see now. There are small ones that have a .500-.515" bore, and there are larger ("Symphonic") models with a .547" bore. Each type is considered a tenor trombone and each can be bought with or without an F trigger. Bass trombones, which are in the same key as tenors, have a larger bore and much larger bell, usually, and always include a trigger or two.

So your Olds is like the .515 bore trombone, and the horn I play is more like the .547 trombone, although the difference in bore between mine and yours is not actually as much (roughly .560 compared to .592).

[kctrumpeteer]

Thanks for the information. I picked my euphonium up last night from the music store and my instructor explained why / how it was actually an euphonium vs a baritone. Which is sort of cool because I hear the way to go is euphonium vs baritone although I don't know if I truly totally understand the difference. (I think the instructor should have to pay me as I think he had as much fun as me playing it and we spent the 1st half of the lesson on the euphonium and then the 2nd half on some technical work I was doing on the trumpet.)

I talked to some people at the music shop both music education degrees /background and whether or not I should learn base clef or just do treble clef. For me if I do treble clef I know all of the fingers and notes. If I do base clef it is like ( feels like) starting all over from the beginning to learn different fingerings for each of the different notes and have to reprogram my brain.

However, both people at the shop said that if I was serious at all that I should absolutely learn base clef.

... a tuba player friend from here (we play in a corporate band together) said that the baritone players almost always have pieces in treble clef. Friends I play in an ensemble with at church seemed to think I would absolutely need to read base clef. ;-P (Typical you ask enough people and you will get a wide variety of answers)



Since you have a low brass background and even though I am primarily a trumpet player, what do you suggest so far as sticking to treble clef or learning base clef for the euphonium???

[RickF]

Originally posted by: kctrumpeteer
I hear the way to go is euphonium vs baritone although I don't know if I truly totally understand the difference.

Dave Werden has an excellent article on the differences between the baritone and euphonium. Here's a link:

Baritone vs Euphonium

Originally posted by: kctrumpeteerWhat do you suggest so far as sticking to treble clef or learning bass clef for the euphonium???

If you can learn BC (bass clef) I would suggest trying to do so. But... as I'm also a 'trumpet refugee', I too can only read TC (treble clef). I've tried several times to learn BC but every time I'm thinking transposition rather than concert pitch fingerings. I guess I'm too old to learn new tricks, ha ha.

I would say that 80% of the time (maybe more) there is TC music for what is handed out in the two bands I play in. If there isn't, I Xpose the music using Finale.

Here's another good article by Mr. Werden on transposing:

Transposing from Bass Clef to Treble Clef Euphonium

[davewerden]

Originally posted by: kctrumpeteer However, both people at the shop said that if I was serious at all that I should absolutely learn base clef.



... a tuba player friend from here (we play in a corporate band together) said that the baritone players almost always have pieces in treble clef. Friends I play in an ensemble with at church seemed to think I would absolutely need to read base clef.

They are all right to some extent. If you play only in band, you will almost always have a TC part available. You could probably get by not learning BC in that environment. BUT there will be some charts in BC only; you'd have to double the tenor sax or bass clarinet to have something to play.

I play in a "typical" church ensemble. You never know where the music is coming from. I often play from a trombone part, which is in BC. Sometimes we use Salvation Army music, so I have a TC part available there.

If I were you I'd relax about it, but still work on learning BC little by little. Borrow the TC and BC copies of a few band works. Read my article, referenced above. Then learn the TC part well. Once that is done, work on the BC part. As you get better, then don't rely on learning the TC part first; just jump in and slog your way through the BC part. It will get easier after a while. If you make some progress when there is no pressure, you can continue to have fun playing in band and have a little confidence that somewhere down the road you can tackle a BC part when necessary, either in band or some other ensemble.

[RWiegand]

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;}<![endif]-->When I auditioned for the Marine Corps field music program I only knew treble clef. I passed the audition but the Captain said I needed to learn and be proficient in base clef. I went cold turkey - picked up a base clef Arban&rsquo;s and started from the beginning where all the fingerings are written. Working through the Preparatory Exercises on the Grupetto and the Interval studies in all keys helped tremendously. Within a couple weeks I was functional in both clefts.

[WVUEUPH]

I myself started on trumpet, I forced myself to learn both clefs by having both copies of music infront of me, bass clef and treble clef, and gradually looking over to just the bass clef. Now all I play is bass clef, but knowing treble clef has really helped for reading tenor clef and transposing in ensembles. Don't look at reading treble clef as a disadvantage, because I have found it very valuable!

[JBrassLee]

My advice is just to learn to play the horn for now as it is a completely different animal than the trumpet. Juts use your TC Arbans and have fun. I think you will find the sound of your horn more pleasing than your trumpet after a while.

You could always learn BC later. As for me, I have always had music available in TC. I have never had an issue. But I am 42 now and I am not serious enough to spend the time learning bass cleff. I can think of many other things that are more fun to do.